Aikido hate

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok. Sensible part first. Two reasons your dual method is high risk.

1. Fighting happens really quite fast.

2. Getting punched in the face can be very distracting.

So you are trying to pick out if a punch is sloppy enough to use as a counter or tight enough to use a different counter in what could be an attack by a guy you know nothing about in a fight that could be done in seconds.

If you mess it up and enter on a sloppy shot. And it is not as sloppy as you fist thought you could eat a shot that ends your ability to continue.

This is again not because I do MMA and you do Aikido. This is just how that dynamic works.

Which is especially bad in a street fight and why I continue to preach people to fight conservatively..

And now for the silly bit. You can't sook about people making assumptions while making assumptions about them.

Suck it up princess and play the ball not the man. I am not trying to hurt your feelings.

I am trying to explain why what you suggest really isn't going to work very well without having to resort to just telling you I have tried all this stuff you are suggesting. Did it in real fights. And it is risky.

You're assuming this requires conscious thought ("trying to pick out"). That's not how skilled response works. Baseball batters don't think about whether the pitch is slow or fast, curved or straight. They just recognize the cues. I can recognize someone's weight moving forward pretty easily, and I simply use what works with that pattern of movement.

As for the other comment, this isn't a game, so I'm not playing anything. You're making unsupported statements and getting condescending. Commenting on that is not ad hominem - it's an acknowledgement of a problem with your argument.

 

[jobo]

Ok. Sensible part first. Two reasons your dual method is high risk.

1. Fighting happens really quite fast.

2. Getting punched in the face can be very distracting.

So you are trying to pick out if a punch is sloppy enough to use as a counter or tight enough to use a different counter in what could be an attack by a guy you know nothing about in a fight that could be done in seconds.

If you mess it up and enter on a sloppy shot. And it is not as sloppy as you fist thought you could eat a shot that ends your ability to continue.

This is again not because I do MMA and you do Aikido. This is just how that dynamic works.

Which is especially bad in a street fight and why I continue to preach people to fight conservatively..

And now for the silly bit. You can't sook about people making assumptions while making assumptions about them.

Suck it up princess and play the ball not the man. I am not trying to hurt your feelings.

I am trying to explain why what you suggest really isn't going to work very well without having to resort to just telling you I have tried all this stuff you are suggesting. Did it in real fights. And it is risky.

your not actually describing real fights as they commonly happen. Fight usually have a build up, even fast fight give you a few seconds notice. If some one just decided to punch you with out any warning, then you are going to get punched, unless you are very quick or constantly on a state of alertness, just incase..
that said the subconscious brain has far quicker reactions that the conscious Brian. And if you drill enough on reaction to a stimulus, a fast movement perhaps you can train yourself to react /counter at the level of subconsciousness that makes you very difficult to hit even with a,sucker punch. That's why the endless repeating of drills and forms are so useful in priming your subconscious in to a) reacting and b) reacting the correct way. As soon as you start to think, you are to slow

 

[Steve]

You're assuming this requires conscious thought ("trying to pick out"). That's not how skilled response works. Baseball batters don't think about whether the pitch is slow or fast, curved or straight. They just recognize the cues. I can recognize someone's weight moving forward pretty easily, and I simply use what works with that pattern of movement.

As for the other comment, this isn't a game, so I'm not playing anything. You're making unsupported statements and getting condescending. Commenting on that is not ad hominem - it's an acknowledgement of a problem with your argument.

Just want to point out that a really really good batter misses almost every time. They get three strikes every at bat and even then don't hit more than 1/3 of the time.

I think the key is to expect to fail and prepare for contingency.

 

[jobo]

Just want to point out that a really really good batter misses almost every time. They get three strikes every at bat and even then don't hit more than 1/3 of the time.

I think the key is to expect to fail and prepare for contingency.

yes but really good batters are facing really good pitchers. Put them against a average pitcher and they will wack it out nearly every time.

 

[O'Malley]

I am with Drop Bear on this, I can't think of any reason to consciously train against a sloppy attacker over a good one and an art that relies on the attacker giving away his own balance (which would be the "aiki" part of Gerry's training if I understand correctly) would be highly unreliable.

There's a saying in French that goes "he who can do more, can do less", which means here that if you can handle a good hook punch for example, you'll be even more able to deal with a sloppy haymaker.

 

[JP3]

Ok. But it doesn't change the dynamic. If I go to three mechanics and one of them is dodgy. I won't really know.

Why not? If you go to 3 mechanics, and one of them is dodgy... "One of these is not like the other."

You'd have the other 2 to compare with, thus isolating the dodgy one, who would no longer get your business.

 

[drop bear]

Why not? If you go to 3 mechanics, and one of them is dodgy... "One of these is not like the other."

You'd have the other 2 to compare with, thus isolating the dodgy one, who would no longer get your business.

So long as we know only one is dodgy. And then yes your analogy works.

If we don't know how many are dodgy Then 1,2 or all three could be full of it. Or they could all be correct and just dissagree. And because I dont know how an engine works it is going to be very hard to judge.

 

[jobo]

I am with Drop Bear on this, I can't think of any reason to consciously train against a sloppy attacker over a good one and an art that relies on the attacker giving away his own balance (which would be the "aiki" part of Gerry's training if I understand correctly) would be highly unreliable.

There's a saying in French that goes "he who can do more, can do less", which means here that if you can handle a good hook punch for example, you'll be even more able to deal with a sloppy haymaker.

there is also the 80/20 rule of economics'. They being that training so you can deal with 80% of attackers makes good sense in the use of time and resources. And 80 % of people are not trained fighter and even if they are they won't be very good ones

 

[drop bear]

your not actually describing real fights as they commonly happen. Fight usually have a build up, even fast fight give you a few seconds notice. If some one just decided to punch you with out any warning, then you are going to get punched, unless you are very quick or constantly on a state of alertness, just incase..
that said the subconscious brain has far quicker reactions that the conscious Brian. And if you drill enough on reaction to a stimulus, a fast movement perhaps you can train yourself to react /counter at the level of subconsciousness that makes you very difficult to hit even with a,sucker punch. That's why the endless repeating of drills and forms are so useful in priming your subconscious in to a) reacting and b) reacting the correct way. As soon as you start to think, you are to slow

Not really. Not if you are relying on your subconscious to do too many things at too fast a rate. You do train to react quickly. But being quick in a fight you use tactics to trick the system a bit.

 

[jobo]

Not really. Not if you are relying on your subconscious to do too many things at too fast a rate. You do train to react quickly. But being quick in a fight you use tactics to trick the system a bit.

but my sub conscious is far more able than my conscious self. Provided it has been programed to make the right decision

 

[drop bear]

You're assuming this requires conscious thought ("trying to pick out"). That's not how skilled response works. Baseball batters don't think about whether the pitch is slow or fast, curved or straight. They just recognize the cues. I can recognize someone's weight moving forward pretty easily, and I simply use what works with that pattern of movement.

As for the other comment, this isn't a game, so I'm not playing anything. You're making unsupported statements and getting condescending. Commenting on that is not ad hominem - it's an acknowledgement of a problem with your argument.

I don't know how baseball batters think about baseball. But you are talking about 2 pretty big changes in response. Entering and using someones weight against them requires you to move your whole body.

Most people cant do it.

We can see it because the big energy given strike is a common strike.

And yet nobody enters and does anything cool with it.

You see it most often with a mid kick catch.

That is a pretty small movement with a really big result. Yet you dont see it happen all that often.

 

[drop bear]

but my sub conscious is far more able than my conscious self. Provided it has been programed to make the right decision

Yeah but you have super fast reflexes. And so can do things other people cant.

I don't have super fast reflexes and so create a dynamic that does not require them to function.

 

[jobo]

I don't know how baseball batters think about baseball. But you are talking about 2 pretty big changes in response. Entering and using someones weight against them requires you to move your whole body.

Most people cant do it.

We can see it because the big energy given strike is a common strike.

And yet nobody enters and does anything cool with it.

I am not suggesting ad hominem. I was saying you were being a whiney *****. it's an acknowledgement of a problem with your argument.

is this the old, if they don't dp it in mma it doesn't work argument ?

 

[JP3]

I don't know how baseball batters think about baseball. But you are talking about 2 pretty big changes in response. Entering and using someones weight against them requires you to move your whole body.

Most people cant do it.

We can see it because the big energy given strike is a common strike.

And yet nobody enters and does anything cool with it

With that big old hoss energy train going in that direction... the proper play would be to just get out of its way, right? Then, when he's redirecting... that'd be where/when. You said you did this yourself, I think. Isn't that cool enough? or, are you referring to nobody doing a whiz-bang thing at the end (rather the impact zone) of the big power load?

 

[jobo]

Yeah but you have super fast reflexes. And so can do things other people cant.

I don't have super fast reflexes and so create a dynamic that does not require them to function.

but that's my point, you do have super fast reflex's . You just not using them. Conscious reflex time is usually about 3ths of a second, then you have to pick an action of what to do and then do it. At least half a second. You subconscious reflex's are a,10th of that. You just need to develop them and trust them

 

[drop bear]

With that big old hoss energy train going in that direction... the proper play would be to just get out of its way, right? Then, when he's redirecting... that'd be where/when. You said you did this yourself, I think. Isn't that cool enough? or, are you referring to nobody doing a whiz-bang thing at the end (rather the impact zone) of the big power load?

Krav maga the guy or something would be cool.

Which I have tried. But generally still coming too fast.

How about some sort of cool ninja throw where you use their force against them.

But generally out of the way is best case.

 

[drop bear]

but that's my point, you do have super fast reflex's . You just not using them. Conscious reflex time is usually about 3ths of a second, then you have to pick an action of what to do and then do it. At least half a second. You subconscious reflex's are a,10th of that. You just need to develop them and trust them

A tenth of a third of a second?

That is pretty quick. I am suprised anyone ever gets hit with reflexes that good.

 

[jobo]

A tenth of a third of a second?

That is pretty quick. I am suprised anyone ever gets hit with reflexes that good.

the ones with reflex's that good generaly don't, unless they are fighting someone with faster reflex's of course

its a 10 0f half a second, there os no decision making time as you react as you have been programmed, so that speeds up a bit.

 

[drop bear]

the ones with reflex's that good generaly don't, unless they are fighting someone with faster reflex's of course

Those guys who never get hit in fights?

Hmmmmmmmm.............

 

[jobo]

Those guys who never get hit in fights?

Hmmmmmmmm.............

have a google on sub conscious reaction time.