Advice with new martial art needed

[oftheherd1]

If you do it fast but wrong, you're just as screwed as if you did it slow plus wrong.

Usually if you do it wrong, there's no leverage or pain compliance, and no pain, either.

I'm not sure I understand your first sentence. Who is screwed? Are you replying to the examples of wrist defense I asked about? Or have you not learned them? BTW, I keep mentioning wrist grab defense since that is usually the first techniques learned. They are very basic but get the student started on watching exactly what he is being taught, hand placement, opening the hand, foot movement, and other things. One must start learning these things correctly, early on. But I am hopefully preaching to the choir.

I'm not sure I can agree totally. If I do some techniques wrong I agree that they may not work. Others may. If in the example I gave on wrist defenses, you fail to open your hand, you still may be able to grab the opponents hand and pull it up to where you can apply a painful grapple; but it will require more strength. If you fail to pull his hand into your chest you are very likely not to apply much pain compliance, but you should have some; but you will likely not be successful in completing the defense.

 

[Martial D]

generally the partner needs to be compliant, or he will get a broken wrist, if / when you get a non complient attacker, they won't flip over, they will get a,damaged wrist,

More like they need to be compliant all the way through, or not at all. There's no turning back once you've offered the wrist as a limp noodle.

 

[skribs]

I'm not sure I understand your first sentence. Who is screwed? Are you replying to the examples of wrist defense I asked about? Or have you not learned them? BTW, I keep mentioning wrist grab defense since that is usually the first techniques learned. They are very basic but get the student started on watching exactly what he is being taught, hand placement, opening the hand, foot movement, and other things. One must start learning these things correctly, early on. But I am hopefully preaching to the choir.

I'm not sure I can agree totally. If I do some techniques wrong I agree that they may not work. Others may. If in the example I gave on wrist defenses, you fail to open your hand, you still may be able to grab the opponents hand and pull it up to where you can apply a painful grapple; but it will require more strength. If you fail to pull his hand into your chest you are very likely not to apply much pain compliance, but you should have some; but you will likely not be successful in completing the defense.

If you don't have good leverage or pressure points, you will end up trying to use your strength. If you are weaker than the other person, or even if you're stronger than them but your technique is really bad, then it doesn't matter. If my arm is comfortable, and you have no leverage on me, it doesn't matter how fast you go or how strong you are. You may make me walk around in a circle, but you won't bring me down.

Going faster doesn't do anything for pain compliance or leverage. With proper technique, speed then becomes important, yes. But without proper technique it doesn't matter how fast you're going.

 

[jobo]

More like they need to be compliant all the way through, or not at all. There's no turning back once you've offered the wrist as a limp noodle.

i know it gets a hard time, but i think aikido will work reasonably well, just the gymnastic ability to throw yourself about like that will be an advantage, it does as i think most people accept have its limitations against trained fighters, who won't as you say give you a noodle to hold

 

[Martial D]

i know it gets a hard time, but i think aikido will work reasonably well, just the gymnastic ability to throw yourself about like that will be an advantage, it does as i think most people accept have its limitations against trained fighters, who won't as you say give you a noodle to hold

I don't totally write aikido off, I have seen some pretty convincing video footage.

On the other hand we've had more than a couple aikido guys to our club over the last 5 years. Could be the way they trained wasn't optimal, I can't really say, but it was pretty easy to stay out of their wrist grabs. Once you give it to them and they get them locked though you're done.

 

[jobo]

I don't totally write aikido off, I have seen some pretty convincing video footage.

On the other hand we've had more than a couple aikido guys to our club over the last 5 years. Could be the way they trained wasn't optimal, I can't really say, but it was pretty easy to stay out of their wrist grabs. Once you give it to them and they get them locked though you're done.

yes but most techniques breakdown if your opponent knows what your going to do, most people would have a very hard job to kick me, if i was expecting that to happen. The issue with aikidio is heaving the wrist is most of what they have, so your always going to expect it

 

[Martial D]

yes but most techniques breakdown if your opponent knows what your going to do, most people would have a very hard job to kick me, if i was expecting that to happen. The issue with aikidio is heaving the wrist is most of what they have, so your always going to expect it

Well, that's true. It's also true that even if I was sparring/fighting a total unknown I'm still not letting my arms go limp in the way that seems to be required for that stuff to work.

 

[drop bear]

i know it gets a hard time, but i think aikido will work reasonably well, just the gymnastic ability to throw yourself about like that will be an advantage, it does as i think most people accept have its limitations against trained fighters, who won't as you say give you a noodle to hold

There is a whole bunch of things you need to do to make standing wrist locks even kind of work.

Most of it has nothing to do with the wrist lock and more to do with creating a position that gives you access to the wrist without getting your head knocked off.

So if your training consists of him throwing a judo chop, you catching the arm grabbing the wrist and doing some sort of move. You are basically focused on the wrong thing.

 

[drop bear]

yes but most techniques breakdown if your opponent knows what your going to do, most people would have a very hard job to kick me, if i was expecting that to happen. The issue with aikidio is heaving the wrist is most of what they have, so your always going to expect it

Elite fighters can still kick other elite fighters.

 

[jobo]

Elite fighters can still kick other elite fighters.

possibly, but they couldn't kick an elite dodger

 

[Kissthecarpet]

Well Aikido seems to be suited for the Person who doesn't get involved in a fight and gets attacked, if you are on a fighter vs fighter situation, it is another story, i have seen that in Sanda. That is why i'm not looking for a competitive martial art, i out of shape... No wait... round is a shape after all.

 

[drop bear]

possibly, but they couldn't kick an elite dodger

Unless they were elite chasers.

 

[jobo]

Unless they were elite chasers.

well then i might be in trouble, i did say most people

 

[Saheim]

OP-

Good luck with the weight. I know it can be a struggle and wish you the best. Stay at it, slow progress is still progress.

No offense to the Aikido advocates/practitioners but I (personally) don' like it. It was not something I (again PERSONALLY) found useful. My experience with it is very limited but, when I start training an art, I normally get a feeling that it contains "tools" that are going in my "box". Aikido just didn't. Even worse, it felt like it was counter productive to my other training. If you are looking for a grappling art, don't rule out Jiu Jitsu. I do not mean BJJ. I mean like DZR or Wally J small circle JJ. Good stuff. People are different, the Aikido might "click" for you but the DZR JJ might, instead. So you should give it a look.

 

[Kababayan]

OP-

Good luck with the weight. I know it can be a struggle and wish you the best. Stay at it, slow progress is still progress.

No offense to the Aikido advocates/practitioners but I (personally) don' like it. It was not something I (again PERSONALLY) found useful. My experience with it is very limited but, when I start training an art, I normally get a feeling that it contains "tools" that are going in my "box". Aikido just didn't. Even worse, it felt like it was counter productive to my other training. If you are looking for a grappling art, don't rule out Jiu Jitsu. I do not mean BJJ. I mean like DZR or Wally J small circle JJ. Good stuff. People are different, the Aikido might "click" for you but the DZR JJ might, instead. So you should give it a look.

Small Circle Jiu Jitsu is a great art. I wish that it was taught more often.