A punch is a punch is a punch........

[Nightingale]

if you're a yellow belt, you prolly didn't get cheated. the strength of the kick/punch tends to increase as rank gets increased... we don't even have someone stand behind our orange belts, but we get three guys behind a brown or black belt promotion, cause we know the guy's gonna fall over, if not get air.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

if you're a yellow belt, you prolly didn't get cheated. the strength of the kick/punch tends to increase as rank gets increased... we don't even have someone stand behind our orange belts, but we get three guys behind a brown or black belt promotion, cause we know the guy's gonna fall over, if not get air.

In my class you don't get kicked until Green Belt. All lower belts
get punched. When I got orange, it was a pretty good hit!

 

[Scott Bonner]

Originally posted by Scott Bonner
I'll ask my wife, as she teaches human sexuality at Purdue University and makes it a point to keep up on such things.
[/B]

So, I checked with a local expert, my mate, and her manuals on sex organs and women's health and so forth: diagrams galore, and writeups specifically addressing risk to reproductive organs from blunt force damage. She gave a pretty conclusive argument for why women are no more fragile than men when it comes to the promotion kick.

The debate was over ovary damage. The ovaries are very low, to the sides (snuggled into pelvic girdle), deep (down with bladder and uterus), small (walnut sized), and protected by muscle and bone (the pelvic girdle, which protects the front as well as the back. One would be more likely to blow a _kidney_ from a frontal kick than to blow an ovary! She concluded that there was no significant risk of ovary damage, meaning that women do _not_ need to be coddled like baby kittens during testing!

That's enough to convince me. Equal treatment for all, I say! Women can take the promotion kick just as well as men.

One could reject the data because it comes from medical sources instead of martial arts sources. But, personally, I trust the medical sources more.

Peace unto you,
Scott
(who is actually a touch iffy about the idea of promotion kicks for anyone, but that's not the point)

 

[Nightingale]

I actually never thought of ovary damage... more concerned with uterine damage. that organ is pretty much centered in the lower quarter of the abdomen and can be damaged by blunt force trauma.

 

[Nightingale]

forgot to say...uterus is approximately fist sized. much bigger target than an ovary...

also, something to think about...

is she pregnant? is there any possibility at all? even if she doesn't know it...

 

[Nightingale]

something else to think about...uterus is fist sized...bigger target than ovary...

also...

could she be pregnant?

women don't always figure this one out right away...attribute morning sickness to flu or whatever if things weren't planned. She may be testing for a belt and not realize she's a few weeks along. kicking a woman of childbearing age in that particular spot probably isn't a real good idea under any circumstance.

 

[Nightingale]

doh. I wrote the second message fast and it said it didn't post it, so I tried again and rephrased things...didn't mean to respond to myself...I feel stupid now.

 

[Scott Bonner]

I asked her about the Uterus, too, but not in as much detail, and she thought the Uterus would be safe, too, being so low and deep -- still less at risk than a bladder or kidney from a frontal kick. However, it was over the phone, so I didn't get to see the diagrams myself, and she didn't take the time to read through the blunt force trauma writeups on uterus (just scanned for ovary and read).

In any case, you are right about losing a pregnancy, once one has been pregnant for a short while. It's surprisingly easy to misinterpret pregnancy clues, I've heard, especially if one hopes one is not pregnant.

Peace,
Scott

 

[Nightingale]

icky-female-stuff-warning

I don't know this from experience, but I've seen a few friends go through it. Pregnancy symptoms are easy to misinterpret, even if you want to be pregnant. sometimes its just unexpected, and people think the dizziness and nausea is just "something I ate." female athletes have notoriously irregular "cycles" anyway, so it could take even longer for an athlete who isn't always regular to know for sure...took a dancer friend of mine almost three months to figure it out.

there's a reason radiologists (x-ray techs) almost always put a lead vest over a woman's middle, even if she tells the radiologist she's absolutely certain she's not pregnant. A woman, especially if its the first child, may not be completely familiar with the feelings and symptoms of pregnancy. might be ignorance, might be wishful thinking, or whatever, but even if someone is trying to get pregnant, they don't know whether or not they're successful for a few weeks... they may be trying to have a child, test for their belt thinking they're not pregnant, and then find out they are because they miscarry because they got kicked...

all I gotta say is...why risk it? if you gotta kick, kick the butt, sweep the leg, or do something else.

 

[Scott Bonner]

We could just do what the "tough guys" did back in high school and pound each other in the arm. :rofl:

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

something else to think about...uterus is fist sized...bigger target than ovary...

also...

could she be pregnant?

women don't always figure this one out right away...attribute morning sickness to flu or whatever if things weren't planned. She may be testing for a belt and not realize she's a few weeks along. kicking a woman of childbearing age in that particular spot probably isn't a real good idea under any circumstance.

I never even though of that until you posted it, but that really is serious and worth considering.

I just don't think it's worth the risk, martial arts is about learning to stop yourself getting hurt, not standing there for a free shot.

Sure, in techniques and sparring you're going to get hit, but with glancing blows or not much force usually, not just a free shot.

Ian.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Scott and Nightingale both have great points...

Personally I don't want to "baby" females either due to the fact that when attacked it will most likely be from a male intending to harm her. Playing patsy with her in the studio does her not good. Dave Brock and all of us know that.

However, when testing..... I have kicked women but it really is more of a hard "PUSH" which usually knocks them down! I do tend to kick or punch Males harder. I am also aware of the "possibility" of injury to the "female area" and do not want to risk any damage or possible damage that could be deemed done by me. You open yourself up for a potential lawsuit if the female individual happens to come up with some injury after a promotional kick or punch - even if you do not nor were the cause of the injury. So, that is why I kick them in the Butt to avoid all possibility of any damage other than that burning ! lol

just my opinion...
D

:asian:

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Scott and Nightingale both have great points...

Personally I don't want to "baby" females either due to the fact that when attacked it will most likely be from a male intending to harm her. Playing patsy with her in the studio does her not good. Dave Brock and all of us know that.

However, when testing..... I have kicked women but it really is more of a hard "PUSH" which usually knocks them down! I do tend to kick or punch Males harder. I am also aware of the "possibility" of injury to the "female area" and do not want to risk any damage or possible damage that could be deemed done by me. You open yourself up for a potential lawsuit if the female individual happens to come up with some injury after a promotional kick or punch - even if you do not nor were the cause of the injury. So, that is why I kick them in the Butt to avoid all possibility of any damage other than that burning ! lol

just my opinion...
D

:asian:

I have a tape of SGM Parker at a promotion (Mr. LaRoux's school) and for the ladies he did more of a right ridge hand/ palm slap as he step to about 10:30. He was having a ball because each person was more terrified than the next, but you could tell it all in fun. He did lay into the Black Belts a little more...I saw one guy crumple over his foot and then jump back up.

 

[Nightingale]

hehe... I guess that would work too.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

hehe... I guess that would work too.

To the midsection area....NOT TO THE BUTT!!!!!:rofl:

 

[Goldendragon7]

But I leave the option to the female..... I just don't want to hurt anyone. I have great control and am not worried because I know what the drill is and how much force to use..... I do enjoy seeing them fall over from the (kick extension)... lol
:asian:

 

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

But I leave the option to the female..... I just don't want to hurt anyone. I have great control and am not worried because I know what the drill is and how much force to use..... I do enjoy seeing them fall over from the (kick extension)... lol
:asian:

I knew you had a twisted side. I just never knew it was denegrating women:rofl:

 

[Nightingale]

That is an excellent compromise, GD.

My reasoning regarding martial arts is this:

The chance of getting injured is a part of everyday life. Personally, I am probably more likely to injure myself walking down the street than in a karate studio. This is primarily because I am a klutz and can trip over thin air.

When you fight, you take a chance of getting hit. This is different than standing there letting someone take a shot at you with you standing there stifling all your human instincts to either block the darn thing or get out of the way. I don't mind getting kicked, I don't mind getting bruised, but if five or ten years down the road I want kids and a doctor tells me I can't have em, I don't want to have to wonder if its because of getting kicked on a belt test... something like that would really make the belt feel kind of pointless.

As I said before, they definitely don't go easy on us ladies at a belt test. We do get kicked. Hard. I had a very large bruise that took over a month to go away... was above my knee but not too high up, so I had to be very careful with my clothing and not wear shorts, and since my test was in may, that was kind of annoying, but that would be my only complaint... (girls don't like to show off bruises like guys do LOL) ...not whining about the bruise, just telling the facts.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Bonehead
I knew you had a twisted side. I just never knew it was denegrating women:rofl:

That's not funny! Some could mistakenly take you as serious!

Now say your sorry, kiss and make it all better!:boing2:

:asian:

 

[Scott Bonner]

I asked Janessa about the Uterus. She said, and I quote "no way. It's like a football. You could take it out, toss it around, and put it back and it would still work." Gross image, huh? She pointed out that it was pure muscle, and freakishly resilient. It has to be to go from being slightly larger than a fist to being as big as a baby.

Also, it is very, very low in the torso, well below the stomach. However, it raises up when sexually aroused (as blood rushes to the reproductive organs, they push the uterus up a little bit). I'd hope that wouldn't be relevant in a belt test, though!

Janessa also stated that blunt trauma can indeed abort a pregnancy, but not until close to the end of the first trimester (and, of course, any time thereafter) due to size of the fetus and protection from the still thick uterin walls.

She stated that one would not become infertile from a stomach shot, even a very hard one.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to give more information from the best source I have.