Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
What all (hidden developments) is involved in a punch (which is the master key upper body drill)?
:asian:
:asian:
A punch is a punch is a punch........
- Thread starter Goldendragon7
- Start date
Turner
Blue Belt
Not having studied Kenpo, I don't know what a master key is so forgive me if I misunderstand the question and don't provide an answer that fits the question.
Your punch starts (in traditional Karate) from a chamber on your hip and starts moving forward and up.
1. At about halfway to the target your arm has completed an uppercut.
2. If you introduce an arc to the forward and keep the elbow down you have an inside or outside block or an inside or outside hand-sword.
3. If you continue on the forward and up motion with out the arc, but don't turn your fist over you have a back-fist, finger whip or back-knuckle strike.
4. If you continue on the forward and up motion and complete the punch you have the punch. If your hand is open you have a heel-palm, spear-hand, push or a grab.
5. As you start to come back from the punch you can pull.
6. As the arm starts to bend and you add an arc to the arm you can slice, rake, ridge-hand or claw your assailant.
7. As the arm returns to the chamber you are executing a reverse elbow strike.
My interpretation of a punch and all that it could turn into (there are plenty more if you get into joint manipulation and involve the other hand in motion) is one of the reasons I get so frustrated when I hear people talking about Kenpo (even though I don't know the techniques) involving over-kill when it defends against a grab. The same technique would work if the grab was actually a punch because the same motions are used. To assume that the grab is always a grab or the punch is just a punch limits you. They are just motions. The intent is in the mind of the person using that motion, not in the motion itself.
But that's just me...
Your punch starts (in traditional Karate) from a chamber on your hip and starts moving forward and up.
1. At about halfway to the target your arm has completed an uppercut.
2. If you introduce an arc to the forward and keep the elbow down you have an inside or outside block or an inside or outside hand-sword.
3. If you continue on the forward and up motion with out the arc, but don't turn your fist over you have a back-fist, finger whip or back-knuckle strike.
4. If you continue on the forward and up motion and complete the punch you have the punch. If your hand is open you have a heel-palm, spear-hand, push or a grab.
5. As you start to come back from the punch you can pull.
6. As the arm starts to bend and you add an arc to the arm you can slice, rake, ridge-hand or claw your assailant.
7. As the arm returns to the chamber you are executing a reverse elbow strike.
My interpretation of a punch and all that it could turn into (there are plenty more if you get into joint manipulation and involve the other hand in motion) is one of the reasons I get so frustrated when I hear people talking about Kenpo (even though I don't know the techniques) involving over-kill when it defends against a grab. The same technique would work if the grab was actually a punch because the same motions are used. To assume that the grab is always a grab or the punch is just a punch limits you. They are just motions. The intent is in the mind of the person using that motion, not in the motion itself.
But that's just me...
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #3
It's what you know about the motion. The reason this is a key is that all your strikes or blocks or hand maneuvers can be found in the action of punching (you do need to understand about different angles and paths of execution) and its reverse and opposite movement.
:asian:
:asian:
Turner
Blue Belt
So the term "master key" refers to a technique/motion/concept that "unlocks" many doors? Cool.
So how many masters keys are there EPAK and what categories do they 'unlock'? I'm not sure I want to know what the master keys themselves are because discovery is most the fun.
So how many masters keys are there EPAK and what categories do they 'unlock'? I'm not sure I want to know what the master keys themselves are because discovery is most the fun.
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #5
Absolutely!
techniques,
kicking,
striking,
drills,
etc.,
The most common known are the Technique Master Keys found thru family groupings.
:asian:
B
brianhunter
Guest
brain...full....must reatain........good knowledge.........
Its the brain pain coach!
Its the brain pain coach!
R
Ronin
Guest
hey Mr. C thanks for the punch the other day. It left me with a bruise.....
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #8
It was just a little tap....... besides...... you only get promoted to 1st Brown once in your life!
:asian:
:asian:
satans.barber
Master Black Belt
Mr. Cawood's packed that in now. It always used to be a decent kick in the solar plexus for lads and a (fairly gentle) palm heel for the ladies.
We had it explained that blah blah it shows we're passing something on blah blah, then this one lad took a kick and just crumpled to the floor, he hadn't tensed his stomach properly and it knocked the wind RIGHT out of him, like worse than normal, he couldn't breath and he started to go all blue...
Since then, just standing their and being kicked hard has seemed like an unacceptable risk to him, so, we don't anymore. Besides, a hand shake is much more civil
Ian.
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #11
However, if the instructor doing the initiation kicks, punches, heel palms.... etc. too hard or ........ THE STUDENT INHALES not exhales correctly..... SURE it can happen.
I still do the "Dragons Kiss" or the traditional kick or punch as a "Right of Passage" but in nearly 30 years have never had a problem.
The Instructor also has a "Strong" responsibility to teach the student how to control his breathing and be able to take a strike. If there is no instruction then ....... you know what the results may be. This is also another part of the usage of this tradition, but the Initiating Instructor has the responsibility NOT to abuse the student while waiting for his "tap"!!!!! Some instructors I guess could abuse this sorry to say. Also it is not a "free shot" to hit as hard as one wants! It should be firm but not fully powerful.
I mean really.... come on..... You are gonna let me hit you full power while you are in a training horse with out the option to block.......... geez.... that sounds fair....... LOL... "NOT"!!!
You must use good common sense and judgment as well as control during this exercise particularly with females due to all the delicate organs there...... so with women I am much softer and lighter or I kick them with a hard, stinging roundhouse in the butt to avoid any possibly of injury.
:asian:
I still do the "Dragons Kiss" or the traditional kick or punch as a "Right of Passage" but in nearly 30 years have never had a problem.
The Instructor also has a "Strong" responsibility to teach the student how to control his breathing and be able to take a strike. If there is no instruction then ....... you know what the results may be. This is also another part of the usage of this tradition, but the Initiating Instructor has the responsibility NOT to abuse the student while waiting for his "tap"!!!!! Some instructors I guess could abuse this sorry to say. Also it is not a "free shot" to hit as hard as one wants! It should be firm but not fully powerful.
I mean really.... come on..... You are gonna let me hit you full power while you are in a training horse with out the option to block.......... geez.... that sounds fair....... LOL... "NOT"!!!
You must use good common sense and judgment as well as control during this exercise particularly with females due to all the delicate organs there...... so with women I am much softer and lighter or I kick them with a hard, stinging roundhouse in the butt to avoid any possibly of injury.
:asian:
Ever since day 1 when I started in kenpo I seen my instructor give the "kicking up to the next level" front kick. Every single time he would shake the students hand and say congratulations. Next came step to horse. As he stepped back into his left neutral bow he will ask the student if they are ready for the kick. He will wait for the nod and as he would deliver the front kick he says exhale about halfway through the kick. I really like his approach to this ceremony and everyone of his students have adopted this approach.
Jason Farnsworth
Jason Farnsworth
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #13
:asian:
S
Scott Bonner
Guest
Delicate organs? Do you mean the breasts? I didn't realize some people kick to the chest when promoting.
How about the stomach? A female student should be able to take a stomach shot -- any shot -- as well as a male student (relative to mass). If not, why are they being promoted? Why would you promote anyone, reguardless of body parts, who cannot take a shot appropriate to level/training?
Besides, no ribs or solar plexi need to break from a stomach shot.
Are you sure you're not just _imagining_ the women's supposed weakness, 'cause "golly, they're just girls!"?
Peace,
From a guy convinced that women can do anything men can, given the drive and a chance,
Scott
- Joined
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I think you are mostly right. However, I beleive GD was referring to things like the ovaries, which can get ruptured fairly easily by a trained hitter; regardless of muscle tissue.
K
Kirk
Guest
I have a problem with tech lines on females. None have ever
said anything, but anything that requires a
punch/elbow/whatever to the chest is an uncomfortable situation
for me. I usually just hit them below the breasteses. None have
said "hey! That's not how the tech goes" or anything like that.
S
Scott Bonner
Guest
I imagine they recognize that uncomfortableness (probably feel more uncomfortable themselves) and don't want to exacerbate the problem by drawing attention to it.
I've felt that way before, too, about techniques that target the chest area on women. I usually try to pull the shot more, so no painful contact is made, since a woman's chest is more sensitive to pain than a man's, from what I hear, and no amount of training will make it easier to take a hit to the breast.
At first, I also tried no contact (since it felt "taboo" until I thought it through and realized what was bothering me was sexual mores that don't apply to non-sexual situations) or hitting under the chest area or up by the shoulders. Now I've gotten over that, and just try for more control.
Peace,
Scott
S
Scott Bonner
Guest
I'd never heard that ovaries were easy to rupture from an external shot, before. Interesting.
However, aren't they located lower in the abdomen, under the hip bone, and therefore protected from a stomach shot? I could be misremembering. I'll ask my wife, as she teaches human sexuality at Purdue University and makes it a point to keep up on such things.
Peace,
Scott
um... the pelvis really only protects organs from shots from the back and sides. the organs are not protected from a kick to the abdomen. a woman's reproductive organs are behind the lower abdominal muscles. a single kick that's too hard, as well as repeated impact to this area can cause fertility problems as well as other issues.
my instructor does not kick women for belt promotions. however, that doesn't men we're off the hook. He'll sweep us. Hard. My last promotion, I had a bruise the size of a large grapefruit on my leg from his kick.
He always makes a point to explain the kick ritual before doing it. He explains the origin, the reason, and if there are girls in the test, why girls aren't kicked in the abdomen. I think that the first part of this explanation is geared towards people watching, and the segment about females is geared towards any black belt who attended the test who might not know our studio's customs. Kind of a very subtle hint.
my instructor does not kick women for belt promotions. however, that doesn't men we're off the hook. He'll sweep us. Hard. My last promotion, I had a bruise the size of a large grapefruit on my leg from his kick.
He always makes a point to explain the kick ritual before doing it. He explains the origin, the reason, and if there are girls in the test, why girls aren't kicked in the abdomen. I think that the first part of this explanation is geared towards people watching, and the segment about females is geared towards any black belt who attended the test who might not know our studio's customs. Kind of a very subtle hint.
I recently tested for yellow and passed
During the test I executed deflecting hammer and made sure to stick the buckle. I ended up twisting my instructors knee pretty good when I struck him with the elbow.
His knee ended up swellling immediately and he could no longer bear weight on it or flex/extend it. So i got to take a decent punch to the abodomen. Not bad, but I feel like I cheated myself and maybe even my instructor a little.
:asian:
~~~Salute~~~
Jeremy
During the test I executed deflecting hammer and made sure to stick the buckle. I ended up twisting my instructors knee pretty good when I struck him with the elbow.
His knee ended up swellling immediately and he could no longer bear weight on it or flex/extend it. So i got to take a decent punch to the abodomen. Not bad, but I feel like I cheated myself and maybe even my instructor a little.
:asian:
~~~Salute~~~
Jeremy
