A odd thing said in Olympic commentary

[Daniel Sullivan]

It will be interesting to see how they apply the use of the electronic system. If it will register punches better, perhaps that will cause a shift to a more dynamic and traditional style.

Also if the electronic systems are affordable enough, it could change the stop and call for points competitions. It would speed them up and make to where you have to be ready to defend as well as strike. I think it might also encourage more combinations instead of throwing one thing and then waiting to see if it scored.

Electric scoring has been the standard if sport fencing for years. It has its advantages; you hit, you score without having to worry about whether or not the judge saw it. It also has its disadvantages; the amount of pressure needed for a score is hardly what you would need to apply in the use of an actual sword, you're teathered, because the action is too fast for wireless (believe it or not), and you have the added headaches of equipment failure due to electronics.

I do think that it could work fairly well for taekwondo, but I have no first or even second hand knowledge of how well it actually works.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yea... buncha crap, IMO.

When I'm judging/ref'ing, that sort of showmanship will have an influence on how I score them, but probably not in the way they want.

I prefer class over self-congratulating behavior.

Unless such behaviour is expressly against the rules, then it should not be a factor in scoring.

Daniel

 

[FearlessFreep]

Of note is the fact that they do not fight with their hands down...

They stance with their hands down but the interval is so great that you couldn't throw a hand to the face without closing distance, and even a foot to the face is quite a reach.

As the interval closes, the hands go up whether the interval is closing from their efforts or the opponents

 

[Steve]

Of note is the fact that they do not fight with their hands down...

They stance with their hands down but the interval is so great that you couldn't throw a hand to the face without closing distance, and even a foot to the face is quite a reach.

As the interval closes, the hands go up whether the interval is closing from their efforts or the opponents

In the matches I've seen so far, they have never once guarded their heads. Their hands move up, but only to about chest high.

I'm also wondering why they don't continue to kick while their opponents are fist pumping and looking at the ref. Is this against the rules?

 

[zDom]

Thanks for admitting you are a horrible judge. I hope we do not run into you in any of our matches.

As a judge you should not be concerning yourself with what a fighter does before or after they kick. Your only job should be to push the red or blue buttons when you see a valid scoring techinque hitting a valid scoring area.

Try to keep your personal feelings out of it.

Whoa, tiger. Judgemental much?

Ask anyone who has seen me ref or been in a match I was judging/ref'ing for and you will find I am as impartial as humanly possible.

Don't read too much into an offhand bit of rhetoric.

We are ALL influenced on a subconcious level by our impressions of people. At least I am self aware enough to know it — and accordingly, will be less likely to let those influences effect my performance as a judge.

Unless such behaviour is expressly against the rules, then it should not be a factor in scoring.

Daniel

Very often attempting to influence the judge's decision by such overt shows is indeed expressly forbidden.

 

[mango.man]

Whoa, tiger. Judgemental much?

Ask anyone who has seen me ref or been in a match I was judging/ref'ing for and you will find I am as impartial as humanly possible.

Don't read too much into an offhand bit of rhetoric.

We are ALL influenced on a subconcious level by our impressions of people. At least I am self aware enough to know it — and accordingly, will be less likely to let those influences effect my performance as a judge.

I unnderstand how the subconcious works. But you made a definative statement

When I'm judging/ref'ing, that sort of showmanship will have an influence on how I score them, but probably not in the way they want.

That is pretty decisive and to me it translates to "If a fighter celebrates a point, I will not score it regardless of the validity of the point"

Very often attempting to influence the judge's decision by such overt shows is indeed expressly forbidden.

I have never seen that written in any rules of competition that I have read. And we compete in 15-20 tournaments/year.

 

[Jade Tigress]

ATTENTION ALL USERS

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Pamela Piszczek
MT Super Moderator

 

[Laurentkd]

I prefer class over self-congratulating behavior.

I agree. "Self cheering" used to be specifically against the rules and received a half point deduction. I don't understand why this has changed. TKD is supposed to teach respect and self-discipline and this cheering and fist pumping obviously shows neither. And I don't think I am holding TKD to a higher standard (although I believe it should be), we all teach our children (or should IMO) be good losers as well as good winners and even the NFL and other professional sport organizations penalize for this type of behavior. As was mentioned somewhere else, it is not currently against the rules, so that is the way the game is played.... but I still don't like it, nor do I teach it.

 

[terryl965]

Well actually mango.man they can get a one point deduction for celebrating or tauning if you choose to call it. Poor sportmanship is just bad taste from anybody.

 

[Tez3]

WOW! Quite amazing things happening at the moment! Sarah Stevenson the British girl fought another Chinese ( the 2 times Olympic gold medal winner and biggest name in Chinese TKD) and clearly and obviouls scored 2 points with a kick to the Chinese girls head, ( I'd call it a crescent kick not sure what it is in TKD) the Chinese girls head went right back. It wasn't scored and the British girl 'lost'. SDame situation as the british lad. The british girl was distraught as it was clear she'd won. However the British man in charge of our TKD team put an objection in and it was upheld!! Our girl goes through to fight in the semi final! The chinese team officials by all accounts agreed their girl had lost and credit is being given to them for their sportsmanship.
However the Chinese crowd hasn't been told other than in English. It's a big crowd and they are waiting for their heroine to come out! There's a delay while the British girl gets ready for her bout, I think there may be some trouble when the Mexican and the british girl come out and not the chinese.
I'll post again after the match as it's due in five minutes.
The Swiss offical who announced it said in English said he was sorry to disappoint the crowd but justice must be done!

 

[Tez3]

Well Sarah lost her match against the +67kg world champion Espinoza but will go on to fight for bronze. Poor Sarah wasn't ready to fight again as she'd gone off and got showered changed etc ready to leave the venue when she was called to fight, still she fought gamely against a very good opponent who had had to wait before she could fight.
As the commentators said though, it was the sport that won. The Chinese crows were quiet thank goodness, the Mexican lass had a big amount of vocal support as well as Sarah so it wasn't noticable that the chinese crowd were not happy.

 

[Tez3]

I'm very proud to announce that Sarah Stevenson has just won Britain's first TKD medal! She got the bronze, yay!!
She picked herself up and despite a painful injury as well as the upset of her fight with the Chinese girl, she went for it. A true warrior.

 

[KickFest]

As the interval closes, the hands go up whether the interval is closing from their efforts or the opponents

I asked my instructor about the whole hands-down thing and he said that at bb level this is what happens. I don't think he would recommend this from a SD standpoint but this is what works in competition so this is what they do. I can only assume that at this skill level, they are aware of the sorts of techniques that are likely to be used against them, and change their guard to whatever is going to block the most techniques at a given distance. I saw LOTS of plain turning kicks so having the hands down like that makes sense in this context. Personally I have always been taught to keep my guard up but then I'm not a bb.

The whole self-congratulating fist-pumping celebrations should be penalised. It makes me cringe every time I see it.

And WELL DONE SARAH!! Way to kick butt! :headbangin:

 

[crushing]

The whole self-congratulating fist-pumping celebrations should be penalised. It makes me cringe every time I see it.

No kidding, I found the fist-pumping incredibly annoying (but some of the hihaps even moreso ;-) ), but I'm not sure it should be penalized. I was more upset over the judging as Tez brough up and a particpant feigning getting kicked in the groin after getting a good solid kick in the stomach. If I wanted to see such drama I would watch football(soccer).

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Very often attempting to influence the judge's decision by such overt shows is indeed expressly forbidden.

Then they should refrain from doing so. Just to put my comment into context, there are sports where such things are expressly forbedden, or are limited (such as in Football where the 'victory dance' is now forbidden), so I didn't want to assume that you were right or wrong in your scoring. I am, after all, not present.

Regarding an earlier comment about why they don't just kick the celebretory opponent whilst they pump their fist looking at the ref, they probably should. I've seen fencers who thought that they scored and stopped fencing, only to get nailed and lose the bout. If your light doesn't go off and the ref doesn't stop the action, you keep on going. If you think that your electrics are experiencing a problem, there is protocol for stopping the bout.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I agree. "Self cheering" used to be specifically against the rules and received a half point deduction. I don't understand why this has changed. TKD is supposed to teach respect and self-discipline and this cheering and fist pumping obviously shows neither. And I don't think I am holding TKD to a higher standard (although I believe it should be), we all teach our children (or should IMO) be good losers as well as good winners and even the NFL and other professional sport organizations penalize for this type of behavior. As was mentioned somewhere else, it is not currently against the rules, so that is the way the game is played.... but I still don't like it, nor do I teach it.

I sadly didn't get to watch the two sports I was most interested in; fencing and taekwondo. In fencing, we are instructed to behave identically whether we win or lose, which means saluting your opponent and a hand shake. I don't know if that translates to Olympic competition (probably not), but that is how competitors in any sport should conduct themselves. Taekwondo in particular, seeing as how taekwondo has actual tenets.

Daniel

 

[KickFest]

On the subject of self cheering, read rule #13 on this page...
http://www.wtf.org/WTF_NEW_LOOK/DOCUMENT_ROOT/site/rules/rules3.htm
I'm not sure I can take the WTF seriously when they do things like this.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

On the subject of self cheering, read rule #13 on this page...

http://www.wtf.org/WTF_NEW_LOOK/DOCUMENT_ROOT/site/rules/rules3.htm

I'm not sure I can take the WTF seriously when they do things like this.

Well, since there seems to be no penalty for kicking the sod while he's pumping his fist in the middle of a match, I guess I can live with it. One would hope that the people who train the competitors. Most schools do not train exclusively for competition, thus the masters should be teaching the TKD tenets and the general decorum that one associates with the martial arts.

Those schools that train only for competition I would hope place a focus on good sportsmanship, and I question whether the behavior under discussion (fist pumping and such) falls into that category. I suppose that as long as both participants are on the same page that its alright, but I find it out of place in the martial arts.

Daniel

 

[mango.man]

Very often attempting to influence the judge's decision by such overt shows is indeed expressly forbidden.

It is not expressly forbidden. In fact, it is expressly allowed as "KickFest" posted above.

Thanks KickFest for finding that I remember reading that a few years ago but never got around to trying to find it. I believe this rule came about at the same time as rule allowing comppetitors to fall down while delivering a valid technique, and still score.

 

[mango.man]

I sadly didn't get to watch the two sports I was most interested in; fencing and taekwondo.

All the matches for both of these sports are still available on nbcolympics.com and I imagine they will be for quite some time.