911 call that--guess what--didn't help

[KenpoTex]

MADISON, Wis. (AP) - Police say a University of Wisconsin student called 911 from her cell phone shortly before she was killed but a dispatcher hung up, didn't call back and never sent police.

(emphasis added)

http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=8260011


Once again we see...YOU are the ONLY one you can count on for your safety.

 

[MJS]

From the link:

MADISON, Wis. (AP) - Police say a University of Wisconsin student called 911 from her cell phone shortly before she was killed but a dispatcher hung up, didn't call back and never sent police.

Unfortunately, while many cell phones give a GPS location, they do not give an actual address, as if you call from your home phone. I take a number of misdials from cells pretty much on a daily basis. Its our policy, where I work, to attempt a call back. If someone answers, at least we can verify if everything is ok. If nobody answers, theres not much to do, although in some cases, we've sent the police to the general area that was picked up by the GPS.

A week or so ago, a 911 hangup came in on a cellphone. I called back only to find out the person who called had got disconnected, but they were in a minor car accident. Not calling back, they wouldn't have gotten help as quick.

The police chief in Madison, Wisconsin, says it's too early to know if a better response could have saved 21-year-old Brittany Zimmermann or helped police capture her killer.

May not have been any help at all, but an attempt should have been made.

Authorities haven't released the content of the call, but police say it should have been enough for the Dane County 911 operator to take seriously.

I would think so.

Zimmermann was found dead in her apartment in what police say was a random crime. They haven't identified a suspect. But they have ruled out her fiance, who found the body and shared the apartment.
The 911 center says it's investigating the incident to decide if employees should be disciplined. A spokesman says he doesn't think "there's anything to apologize for at this time."

Unless we know the policy/procedures for that dept. its hard to say at this time. But, seeing that we're in the job to provide help to people, I'd say the person answering the phones that day didn't live up to their end of the bargin.

 

[tellner]

Don't worry. Sovereign immunity will protect the poor harried dispatcher from an unfair criminal trial, the Evil Trial Lawyers and their frivolous lawsuits. The standard remedy will be trotted out - better pay and more money for training.

:barf:

 

[MJS]

Don't worry. Sovereign immunity will protect the poor harried dispatcher from an unfair criminal trial, the Evil Trial Lawyers and their frivolous lawsuits.

So you don't think a civil suit wouldn't happen?

The standard remedy will be trotted out - better pay and more money for training.

:barf:

Well, part of the solution, not necessarily just for this person, but for anyone in that department, would be better training. Obviously going by what happened, training was lacking.

 

[tellner]

It certainly would help in a lot of cases. But is their any evidence that that's what was going on here? Was it poor training or an individual who screwed the pooch? The institutional assumption will be "more money for us" after a lengthy and self-congratulatory review process that dilutes responsibility to a homeopathic dose.

That's where it tends to end. A department can get behind the idea of more money. But giving up one of its own to outsiders is anathema. Accountability to outside authorities is for the Little People, not People Like Us.

A lawsuit may well happen. But in the current judicial climate it may not go far. And if it does the employee will be protected from the direct results. The municipality's insurance company will take a hit. There will be reprimands. Nothing will change.

 

[MJS]

It certainly would help in a lot of cases. But is their any evidence that that's what was going on here? Was it poor training or an individual who screwed the pooch? The institutional assumption will be "more money for us" after a lengthy and self-congratulatory review process that dilutes responsibility to a homeopathic dose.

In all honesty, I can't give an answer to that. It could be poor training, it could be the person is just unfit for the job, so no amount of training would work...it could be a number of things.

That's where it tends to end. A department can get behind the idea of more money. But giving up one of its own to outsiders is anathema. Accountability to outside authorities is for the Little People, not People Like Us.

A lawsuit may well happen. But in the current judicial climate it may not go far. And if it does the employee will be protected from the direct results. The municipality's insurance company will take a hit. There will be reprimands. Nothing will change.

In my 6yrs. I've seen one person get fired for the way they handled a call. On the other hand, I've seen many more sold up the river by management. Sure those people are still working, but when push came to shove, the word of the citizen was taken without any consideration for the word of the employee. Granted, the calls in question were nowhere near as serious as this one in question, but IMHO, the punishment didn't fit the 'crime'.

 

[Deaf Smith]

You are your first and last line of defense. It would be great if the cops came after dialing 911, but don't ever count on it. Count only on yourself. Sure call the cops, but get a good weapon just in case. And learn CPR and first aid to while you are at it.

So many of our society has just abdicated their personal safety to the state. They have traded their freedom for security and ended up with neither. Traded away safety for more hours in front of the boob tube or game box or disco.

I know it takes time to learn to defend oneself. I know it takes money to aquire the tools and skills to defend. But, that's part of survival. That's part of personal responsibility.

The girl was never taught by her parents what to do except 'dial 911'. Not shown either how to use a gun or knife or stick. Or even just her hands and feet. Instead they depended on weak locks and '911'. Well we see where that went this time.

And no, while there will be some huffing and puffing and 'analysis' of the mistake made by the 911 operator, not much of anything will be solved for simply even if 911 worked perfectly, still many times there will be people who can't call 911 in time (or the cops simply can't get there in time.)

You are on your own. Think like that, act like that, and prepare like that. And maybe, just maybe, the cops or EMT will come in time. Just don't put yourself in the positition were it's either they come or you die.

Deaf

 

[KenpoTex]

You are your first and last line of defense. It would be great if the cops came after dialing 911, but don't ever count on it. Count only on yourself. Sure call the cops, but get a good weapon just in case. And learn CPR and first aid to while you are at it.

So many of our society has just abdicated their personal safety to the state. They have traded their freedom for security and ended up with neither. Traded away safety for more hours in front of the boob tube or game box or disco.

You are on your own. Think like that, act like that, and prepare like that. And maybe, just maybe, the cops or EMT will come in time. Just don't put yourself in the positition were it's either they come or you die.

Deaf

Very Well Said!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Obviously in a survival situation if you can call 911 and have a chance of the police showing up that is absolutley a very, very positive thing to do. Please do so if you can! However, in the mean time you will need to take care of business and protect yourself or your loved ones if needed.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Tell me, is there anything about the police you actually do like? You seem to have this deep seated hatred of them, and enjoy going on so about it. I've often wondered just exactly what caused this condition in you. Were you forced to watch Andy Griffith as a child, are you a left over anarchist from the 60's, or just a member of the "cops are bad dude" group? I've found most to be honest, stressed, and pretty decent, as long as you're not a complete prat. I am so glad that I do not live in your world.

Now instead of falling back to paranoia, conspiracy theory, and all that pap, I'll add my constructive 2 farthings.

It's obvious that an error was committed. The question is, why, and what needs to be done so that it doesn't happen again. A sign that says "If disconnected, attempt to call back" placed on every monitor may be all the "extra training" needed. The fact that this happened is a damn shame, but I think it speaks well of the 911 system in the US that these stories of error are rare.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to find some aluminium paper to fold into a hat to protect mself from the evil mind rays that some believe in.

Wibble.

Don't worry. Sovereign immunity will protect the poor harried dispatcher from an unfair criminal trial, the Evil Trial Lawyers and their frivolous lawsuits. The standard remedy will be trotted out - better pay and more money for training.

:barf:

It certainly would help in a lot of cases. But is their any evidence that that's what was going on here? Was it poor training or an individual who screwed the pooch? The institutional assumption will be "more money for us" after a lengthy and self-congratulatory review process that dilutes responsibility to a homeopathic dose.

That's where it tends to end. A department can get behind the idea of more money. But giving up one of its own to outsiders is anathema. Accountability to outside authorities is for the Little People, not People Like Us.

A lawsuit may well happen. But in the current judicial climate it may not go far. And if it does the employee will be protected from the direct results. The municipality's insurance company will take a hit. There will be reprimands. Nothing will change.

 

[MJS]

I doubt there is any job in the world, where mistakes don't happen. You have doctors that spend years in school, only to perform a surgery and make a mistake. Happens all the time. Why do some people hate the cops and dispatchers? No idea. Of course, the people who make certain comments, I'm sure have never set foot in a dispatch center or have taken the wide variety of calls that are phoned in.

I suppose its like the martial arts. You get some that don't like a particular art, and thrive on making it their life to tell everyone that X art sucks. Same thing with this situation.

The dispatcher is the first person on the scene of any situation, so to speak, and they're also people that are shown alot of disrespect. In this job, you need to have a thick skin. Am I perfect? Far from it, but I attempt to perform my job to the best of my ability. The people I work with fortunately all look out for one another. If someone is not doing something right, doesnt realize the mistake and someone else notices this, they'll speak up, rather than let the person sink.

Like I said, there was an obvious mistake made here, and it needs to be looked at. Would the caller be alive today if the dispatcher had sent help? Unknown, because even if help was sent, it still could have been too late.

Its a stressful job, and certainly not for everyone. As I said, nobody is perfect.

 

[KenpoTex]

I don't dislike cops collectively...I have lots of friends that work in LE. In general, I have a lot of respect for LEOs. They are overworked, underpaid, and underappreciated. AFAIC, the majority of them are decent, honorable men and women.

The point of the thread was not to bash police but to show that in many cases the police are irrelevant. Most of the time, they don't show up until the incident is over and, as this case and others like it show, sometimes calling 911 won't get them there at all (regardless of who's to blame).

 

[chinto]

Guess What Boys and Girls... the cops and 911 are completely in the clear legally... nthe supreme court has ruled 5 times or so in the last century that NO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY HAS ANY DUTY TO PROTECT ANY CITIZEN!!! their duty is to investigate the crime and collect evidence and arrest any one indicted.. any ting else they may do is gravy!!!! I suggest you remember that when some of the liberal idiots want to disarm you!!!! the Supreme court of the United States of America has ruled that protecting yourself is your problem!!! IT IS NOT LAW ENFORCEMENTS PROBLEM AT ALL!!! that is the law of the land!!!!

 

[KenpoTex]

Another one...this one's really pathetic. Luckily the caller is okay.
link

 

[chinto]

I guess I have to say it again... THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES HAS RULED; ( approximately 5 times in the last 100 years the same each time) : that NO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OR ITS OFFICERS, AGENTS OR PERSONAL HAVE ANY DUTY TO PROTECT YOU FROM HARM!!!!!
The rulings each time said that they are there to investigate crimes after they happen, collect evidence for the prosecution and arrest any one indicted.... NOT PROTECT YOU!!! so I would suggest that calling 911 is a good thing, but then get on with protecting yourself and your loved ones with what ever means you have at hand.

 

[KenpoTex]

Oh, you don't have to convice me...I post stuff like this for the people that may not be quite as self-reliant.