Discussion in 'The Study' started by Makalakumu, Apr 24, 2012.
Honestly? I don't think it's much different then when i got my BA 25 years ago. My first job, (and for most of the people I knew, unless they went for a professional designation), didn't need a degree. I think years of telling our kids to get a University degree instead of a trade has hurt our current economy, why else would we have a shortage of skilled tradesmen?
We can do a lot better than that. Let's try to get that up to 70%. Re-elect Obama.
I know people today who got their degree 20+ years ago and have never had a job that required a degree.
I wonder how many of these recent grads got virtually worthless degrees like this guy: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/04/08/v-print/144520/college-seniors-face-better-job.html with triple majors in English, theater, and 'gender, sexuality and feminist studies'.
I also agree with Ken that society has focused on 'go to college and get a degree' far to much and have really done trade schools and people who go to trade schools a huge disservice. Mike Rowe made a great speech in front of Congress about it, over 7 minute long but well worth watching.
Is he the guy from Dirty Jobs? I heard him interviewed on Dennis Miller's show, he is a real genuine seeming guy. Great personality.
Yep, he is. Funny too.
They've developed a reputation as dirty, dangerous, overworked and underpaid. Who here wants to be a machinist, and considers it a respectable career? Who wants to be a roofer, in the snow and mud, for $10.50 an hour? The impression that we're busy outsourcing all industry to China and Korea doesn't help either - People don't look for jobs they don't believe they're going to be here next year.
I think machinists get more than $10.50 an hour. I suspect that if roofers get less, it's because they are brand new or have questionable documents. Handy men usually get more than that. Day laborers in northern Virginia demand $10.00 an hour and a lot of them will work rather slowly.
Try electricians or plumbers. I promise they make more than $10.50 an hour. And pray you don't need them on an emergency basis.
Colleges and universities are the ones most strongly advocating the need for more and more people with undergrad degrees. But they are businesses before they are insitutions of higher learning, so for them to push that is self serving.
So while a degree will certainly help get some jobs, they won't help or be needed for all.
Having graduated 26 years ago, I've seen the workforce change. Gone are the jobs where you had a choice to skip the university experience, and instead learn a quick vocation and then either go to work at the factory or try to become your own plumbing or electrical contractor. At the same time, back in the '80s, there was still the steady and consistent percentage of kids who were "supposed to" go to college or a university. These were legacy kids, or kids from otherwise successful and well-to-do generations who were expected to obtain a proper college education. You couldn't tell them to consider a "trade" back then; no use in trying to tell them that now.
Moreover, a wider demographic and psychographic of people are attending colleges and universities today. Most want the opportunity to move past the prescribed limitation of laborer, warehouse worker, etc., while others simply believe that they're just as entitled to the university experience as anyone else.
Whatever the motivations, more and more kids are going to college and they're upping the "American Dream" ante. It's an economic and educational challenge that--for my kids' sake--I hope society can meet.
Many of the jobs that require specialized trades education, rather than college, are still out there. Carpenters, operating engineers, plumbers, electricians, car mechanics, HVAC technicians, police (there is really limited justification for college requirements in LE; otherwise, why would we still need academies?) and fire services... the list goes on. Many times, a lot of the trade education is as intense and intellectually challenging as any college course, and some trades are teaching through community colleges. That's not to say that college won't help -- especially when it comes to running a business successfully.
College is only secondarily about career prep, outside of the professional degrees like engineering, teaching, medicine or law and, of course, academia itself. It's largely about creating some idealized, well rounded "educated" person.
This article seems to dovetail with this documentary.
That some tradesmen jobs are "out there", doesn't necessarily translate to wide ranging opportunity. It hasn't in about a decade. We're now at a point in time when we really don't know how to guide our kids' education choices. The paradigm has shifted. We're having to create a new economy, and many of us don't quite know how.
So while colleges and universities seem primarily intended to produce "educated" people, it's still a necessity for establishing a career and livelihood.
I dropped out of college and am currently unemployed but I am FAR from being a slacker! Besides taking Tang Soo Do, I help out at my dad's business a couple times a week for a few hours and go to appointments and groups weekly to stabilize and improve my life. I am not lazy by any means and I'm fairly content in terms of where I am in life. I do not wish to have some job that I hate going to everyday and believe you should TRULY enjoy and be happy with your occupation.
but if they have trouble finding work they better not want to use EI right, Ken?
Signed your entitled Blade who doesn't want to shovel manure for minimum wage.
Just where have you been young lady???!! Hope everything is well in the little orange room so like so much.
around in some other forums
and me little orange room has got the lead now in some latest polls done
Honeymoon leader stage, 3 1/2 years until the next election, no Liberal leader...so keep drinking the orange cool aid Blade! Good to see you back anyway!
nom nom nom
loves orange cool aid Some nice drink! Want some?
Theres nothing wrong with a college education, but I think that the idea that a student should get a degree in a particual field and then get a job in that feild has been a diservice to our youth. Just because you "want" a degree in a field doesnt mean you are cut out for it. While "liberal arts" degrees get sneered at, I think there is something to be said for them. Get a broad based education then specialize after you get out in the world and figure out what it is you REALLY want to do with your life.123
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