15yo Kills Herself After Being Bullied

[Steve]

Agreed, Suke. I must say, I'm a bit disconcerted to hear 'bullying is a part of life' as an argument. I think it's important to understand that bullying -- as defined by educators and psychologists -- is persistent. In other words, we're not talking about a kid getting picked on on any given day. We're talking about a pattern of behaviour.

Consider also, please, some kids who are typically targeted for bullying: Spec Ed kids, ESL kids, kids who are poor at sports... I see this all as very predatory and quite sickening.

I still think that the general perspective here as well as in society at large is only addressing half the story. Kids who bully are often bullied themselves, and when they aren't, there are often specific, addressable, things in their lives that are leading to their behavior. Whether it's insecurity, an overreaction to being bullied themselves, a sign of abuse at home or whatever, I think that it's a shame that society gives up on these kids. We write them off as being bullies, while we spend all of our energy helping the bullied. As far as I'm concerned, they're all kids who need our help.

Sometimes, just as getting a victim of bullying into MA is the best thing, I've seen kids who get into MA or some other constructive outlet really find that they've lost any of their impetus to bully.

 

[jks9199]

I have to wonder....does the level of the bullying, determine whether or not a child will be driven to kill themselves or will it depend on the person? I mean, I was picked on, but I never had so much disgust that I felt like taking my life.

On the other hand, is it a part of life? I mean, if we say that it is, then technically, abusing your wife or husband is part of being married. In all of the years that I've been married, I've never abused my wife, nor has she abused me. I doubt that every kid in the world is a victim of bullies, just like I doubt that every marriage results in abuse.

Two different issues there, MJS. A lot definitely depends on definitions -- and the definition of bullying is much less clear than that of domestic abuse.

How someone reacts to bullying events will depend on the person along with the bullying behavior in question. Consider that some of the things that a Rat at VMI or a plebe at one of the service academies goes through could easily be labeled hazing at a normal college. Same thing with fraternity pledge stunts... Or pranks played on a rookie officer.

Most people will let those things roll off their backs; suck it and make it through. Maybe revisit it on the next crop... A few have major problems coming out of it. Same thing with a lot of stuff... but then you get a kid who gets shunned at a time when they're feeling a little more vulnerable... or that isn't getting support at home or elsewhere... and you get a tragic outcome, whether it's a suicide, or a mass shooting event or something else.

Domestic abuse comes from a different place and is a different phenomenon. And it's even more complex.

 

[Carol]

I was bullied until I high school. I had leg braces on my legs for awhile, I was profoundly bad at sports, and my communication skills were not very good. To top things off, I was brilliant academically. I swear I had a permanent "kick the nerd" sign on me for the longest time.

Things changed in high school because my dad took a transfer out of the northeast. We landed in the Chicago area and I went to a high school that was big enough for me to hide. I was excused from gym class because of bad asthma, my phys ed consisted of cardio and strength training in a class led by the school's trainer. It was here where I developed my love of swimming. I also took up the guitar, which saved me in more ways than one. It helped me develop my own identity...outside of school, church, family, whatever. It was my thing to do, and I could do this in an environment where no one around me knew the reasons I was bullied. Within a couple of years I had broken out of my lifelong introversion and developed a quick wit, and sometimes even a mouth that got me in to a little bit of trouble.

Bottom line...no, bullying is not part of life. Having classmates that don't like you or that can be social snits is part of life. Bullying is not.

 

[MJS]

Two different issues there, MJS. A lot definitely depends on definitions -- and the definition of bullying is much less clear than that of domestic abuse.

I guess I was looking at it from this point of view: Both cases can and often do include verbal, mental and physical abuse. While the main difference is the fact that a husband and wife live together, while the kids in school do not, the forms of abuse are the same or very close to the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying#Hazing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_abuse

Not 100% the same, but similar.

How someone reacts to bullying events will depend on the person along with the bullying behavior in question. Consider that some of the things that a Rat at VMI or a plebe at one of the service academies goes through could easily be labeled hazing at a normal college. Same thing with fraternity pledge stunts... Or pranks played on a rookie officer.

Most people will let those things roll off their backs; suck it and make it through. Maybe revisit it on the next crop... A few have major problems coming out of it. Same thing with a lot of stuff... but then you get a kid who gets shunned at a time when they're feeling a little more vulnerable... or that isn't getting support at home or elsewhere... and you get a tragic outcome, whether it's a suicide, or a mass shooting event or something else.

I think its safe to say that everyone breaks their friends or co-workers chops every now and then. Unfortunately, some people do not know when to draw the line, and IMHO, that line seperates the joking around, from the bullying. Even the friendly kidding can get old after a while, and there has been more than 1 time, when I've made it clear to a coworker that they're very close to crossing that line. Needless to say, it usually ends.

 

[jks9199]

I think its safe to say that everyone breaks their friends or co-workers chops every now and then. Unfortunately, some people do not know when to draw the line, and IMHO, that line seperates the joking around, from the bullying. Even the friendly kidding can get old after a while, and there has been more than 1 time, when I've made it clear to a coworker that they're very close to crossing that line. Needless to say, it usually ends.

And that's the thing... joking around, even if it's hitting below the belt, ends when it stops being fun.

Bullying doesn't. And, for kids today, they have fewer escapes than they once did... When I was kid, crap at school generally ended when the school day ended. Maybe someone lived in your neighborhood, but generally the school crap stopped with the closing bell. Today, with Facebook, MySpace, and all the rest of the social networking and on-line gaming, along with parents who have hovered over the kids and protected them more than in the past... the lines have blurred.

Again, I think some bullying is a fact of life. And people have to learn the personal resiliency to overcome it, learn ways to escape or deflect it, or have the personal integrity to stand up and tell 'em to knock it off. But when it crosses a line of persistence or intensity -- then it needs to be stopped by those in authority. Who have the duty to be aware enough to realize when it's going on... Because some times, the people doing the worst are also the ones who have the most favorable public face.

 

[harlan]

Yes, it is a fact of life. And it's time to change it.

This death occurred about two towns over from me, and it's 'all the talk' - locally, state-wide, and nationally. But it's nothing new, and persists because the country doesn't acknowledge that it's a larger, societal issue, and work to dismantle it (not just a local problem). Fact is, kids don't snitch because the mob mentality and gang culture thrives in our schools and they don't have the means or desire to protect kids that come forth. Kids don't tell parents because parents will bring it to the school, and that's where the problem is. The internet has added a pernicious aspect of networking, and 'the school' really isn't just a geographical space anymore; regularly, my own child has had to worry about people from other towns that never even set foot on her school grounds. So, while 'the school' may be a nexus, the problem is distributed, networked, and compounded by the internet. I'm certain a federal law somewhere must be involved.

It's the same at the workplace, and can exist anywhere where whistleblowers can't be guaranteed safety. We even have a bill in the Massachusetts house, addressing workplace bullying, that last I heard had stalled.

 

[CoryKS]

Yes yes yes, there it was. Youth must go, ah yes. But youth is only being in a way like it might be an animal. No, it is not just being an animal so much as being like one of these malenky toys you viddy being sold in the streets, like little chellovecks made out of tin and with a spring inside and then a winding handle on the outside and you wind it up grrr grrr grrr and off it itties, like walking, O my brothers. But it itties in a straight line and bangs straight into things bang bang and it cannot help what it is doing. Being young is like being like one of these malenky machines.

My son, my son. When I had my son I would explain all that to him when he was starry enough to like understand. But then I knew he would not understand or would not want to understand at all and would do all the veshches I had done, yes perhaps even killing some poor starry forella surrounded with mewing kots and koshkas, and I would not be able to really stop him. And nor would he be able to stop his own son, brothers. And so it would itty on to like the end of the world, round and round and round, like some bolshy gigantic like chelloveck, like old Bog Himself (by courtesy of Korova Milkbar) turning and turning and turning a vonny grahzny orange in his gigantic rookers.

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/chabrieres/texts/clockwork_orange.html
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/clockworkorange/terms.html


"Every generation, Western civilization is invaded by barbarians; we call them "Children."
- Hannah Arendt

 

[Drac]

I was bullied alot althrough Jr and Sr High..Most of it came from the " jocks" and not alot was done about it because they were the stars of whatever sports team they were on..It was put down to them being high spirited avarage youth, it was said in such a way to make me feel I was below average..Then these same butt holes will send you an invite to attend the HS reunion walk up and shake your hand and give you a hug..

 

[zDom]

(stands up)

Hi. My name is zDom, and I was a victim of bullying ...

I won't even start. I could — probably SHOULD, and actually might — write a BOOK on the things I've experienced on this subject.

I was a bully magnet. Moved well over a dozen times growing up. A different school for 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th grade.

Yea.. don't get me started

Part of the problem is the kids. Part of the problem is their parents. A big part of the problem is the adults in school who turn a blind eye, punish the victim and the bully equally, downplay the seriousness of the issue ....

I'll stop now.

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, I am sensing a commonality of experience here.

I was unlucky enough to be too bright, too religious and late in starting to grow out as well as up. I was lucky enough to be aggressively spirited and had had discipline drummed into me.

So when the bullies started in on me (inevitably), I would not fight because my father had told me not to but neither would I run. I just kept getting back up when they knocked me down.

After a while, word got around that I was not a coward (even tho they could not understand why I wouldn't fight back) and my classmates started to look out for me a bit, which made those early years survivable without breaking my word to my father.

Being too clever had its price in the later years tho and I never really 'fitted in' until after the five years of manditory secondary schooling were over (11 to 16). As has been noted before in this thread, emotional/psychological bullying is worse than the physical. I could take being punched, being left out of things hurt much more. That experience is why I never brush off someones experience of such things as trivial. They do sound suoerficial but a broken nose heals much easier.

 

[MJS]

And that's the thing... joking around, even if it's hitting below the belt, ends when it stops being fun.

Bullying doesn't. And, for kids today, they have fewer escapes than they once did... When I was kid, crap at school generally ended when the school day ended. Maybe someone lived in your neighborhood, but generally the school crap stopped with the closing bell. Today, with Facebook, MySpace, and all the rest of the social networking and on-line gaming, along with parents who have hovered over the kids and protected them more than in the past... the lines have blurred.

Again, I think some bullying is a fact of life. And people have to learn the personal resiliency to overcome it, learn ways to escape or deflect it, or have the personal integrity to stand up and tell 'em to knock it off. But when it crosses a line of persistence or intensity -- then it needs to be stopped by those in authority. Who have the duty to be aware enough to realize when it's going on... Because some times, the people doing the worst are also the ones who have the most favorable public face.

Same when I was in school...when the day ended, so did the BS. I never heard of what you hear of today, ie: the bullying expanding to the cyber world. While these things do happen, I do not feel that they should have to be tolorated. Kids go to school to learn, in a specific environment. It is the schools job to provide that environment. While the school may not be able to do anything beyond the walls of the school, meaning the cyber world, the police should take care of that issue.

Part of life or not, a child may not have the 'thick skin' that an adult does. Then again, how many times have we heard about people coming to their place of employment with a gun? Happens all the time.

Its just a shame that a young life was taken, because of the actions of a bunch of punks.

 

[Sukerkin]

Nothing to say in response to that singular truth other than "Word!".

 

[jks9199]

Something else that's occurred to me on this issue...

I wonder how much of people's opinions and views on this are shaped by their age, or more specifically by when they grew up? And I'm not trying to suggest that younger people are softer, or that bullying was less intense at different points... but times were different. Behaviors and attitudes that were accepted in the late 70s and 80s when I was growing aren't acceptable today... (Some of that's for the better; some of it I'm not so sure about, and some of it's definitely for the worse.)

 

[Blade96]

Bullying and stalking are two different things.

Stalking can be a part of bullying. As an example, I was stalked when i was bullied.

 

[Steve]

Stalking can be a part of bullying. As an example, I was stalked when i was bullied.

I don't want to be argumentative, but I disagree. Stalking and bullying can happen at the same time, but they aren't the same. One can be stalked without being bullied or vice versa. I also think that stalking is a much, much more serious issue than your standard bullying. Not to make light of bullying, but like harassment and assault, when bullying progresses to stalking you're now talking about something other than simple bullying.

Pizza and beer are often associated with each other, but many people enjoy pizza without beer, although I'm not sure how.

 

[Blade96]

I don't want to be argumentative, but I disagree. Stalking and bullying can happen at the same time, but they aren't the same. One can be stalked without being bullied or vice versa. I also think that stalking is a much, much more serious issue than your standard bullying. Not to make light of bullying, but like harassment and assault, when bullying progresses to stalking you're now talking about something other than simple bullying.

Pizza and beer are often associated with each other, but many people enjoy pizza without beer, although I'm not sure how.

You must be talking about relatively lighter versions of bullying than my experiences then.

From the website olweus.org

"A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself."
​

This definition includes three important components:
1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.


Stalking can most definitely be a part of this. It is a negative action done with evil intent. Stalking can be a form of bullying.


Imo anyway.

 

[Steve]

You must be talking about relatively lighter versions of bullying than my experiences then.

From the website olweus.org

"A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself."
​

This definition includes three important components:
1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.


Stalking can most definitely be a part of this. It is a negative action done with evil intent. Stalking can be a form of bullying.


Imo anyway.

But it's not stalking.

 

[bekkilyn]

I was bullied from second grade on up through Jr. high school. The same people were in school with me all of those years and I thought they would eventually grow out of the second grade mindset, but they didn't. I'd been told to ignore them, but of course that never worked. I couldn't physically try to fight them because the bullying wasn't physical except once in elementary school when one kid punched me in the stomach and tried to push me down the stairs. For the longest time, I couldn't figure out if the problem was me or them.

For tenth grade, I had the opportunity to change schools by entering a magnet program and I jumped at the chance. So I was going to school with all new people and there was no more bullying, at least for me. Problem solved.

Interestingly, I read an online local news article this morning and it seems like one of the kids who bullied me back then is now being charged with suspected child abuse.

 

[Blade96]

But it's not stalking.

No. its not THE same. I just said stalking someone can be a way of bullying them. thats all.

 

[MJS]

Gee, why am I not surprised at this.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36191902/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/