10 Mistakes You Cannot Make When Confronted With A Violent Situation

[Carol]

1. Don't hope it goes away. Take the necessary action to end the situation.

2. Don't expect there to be even a glimmer of compassion in your attacker - there isn't.

3. Don't believe the playing field will be level when you are attacked. Conditions will be most advantageous to your attacker and you will be most vulnerable.

4. Don't apply your social restraint to their attack. The two are not compatible.

5. Don't believe you can compete normally with their level of violence. They are abnormal.

6. Don't be confrontational or challenging. The situation is bad enough; letting your anger urge you headlong into a situation won't help.

7. Don't give up, ever, if attacked.

8. Don't promulgate a lie to yourself or your loved ones. The realities of today are what they are, and they need to know the hard-core facts about them.

9. Don't forget, YOU didn't start anything or ask for any trouble.

10. Never forget #7.



Source:

Jim Grover AKA Kelly McCann
Guns and Ammo
June 1997

 

[Drac]

1. Don't hope it goes away. Take the necessary action to end the situation.

2. Don't expect there to be even a glimmer of compassion in your attacker - there isn't.

3. Don't believe the playing field will be level when you are attacked. Conditions will be most advantageous to your attacker and you will be most vulnerable.

4. Don't apply your social restraint to their attack. The two are not compatible.

5. Don't believe you can compete normally with their level of violence. They are abnormal.

6. Don't be confrontational or challenging. The situation is bad enough; letting our anger urge you headlong into a situation won't help.

7. Don't give up, ever, if attacked.

8. Don't promulgate a lie to yourself or your loved ones. The realities of today are what they are, and they need to know the hard-core facts about them.

9. Don't forget, YOU didn't start anything or ask for any trouble.

10. Never forget #7.



Source:

Jim Grover AKA Kelly McCann
Guns and Ammo
June 1997

Great post Carol..

5. Don't believe you can compete normally with their level of violence. They are abnormal

Well said...You must go to the next level..Most rookies cops are given the Use of Force Continumn aka if the attacker does this you do this..The biggest MISTAKE many make is to meet their attack at the same level..Go to the NEXT one...

6. Don't be confrontational or challenging.

The situation is bad enough; letting our anger urge you headlong into a situation won't help.

Dont run you mouth..It will only empower them...

7. Don't give up, ever, if attacked

Amen to that one...Bite, claw, spit WHATEVER it takes....

 

[exile]

The 11th "don't": Don't forget the eyes—if they're blinded, they can't see where you are, and they'll have more on their minds than you, at that point.

I'm not joking about this.

 

[Drac]

The 11th "don't": Don't forget the eyes—if they're blinded, they can't see where you are, and they'll have more on their minds than you, at that point.

I'm not joking about this.

Excellent point....

 

[just2kicku]

Great subject, many people forget that when attacked, there is no level playing field, there are no rules! You attack with everything you've got. Spit, bite, pinch, pull hair, and claw, but you do what it takes to neutralize your attacker. And when he's down keep going so he doesn't get up. All rules of a "fair" fight" go right out the window, this guy is trying to hurt or kill you.

 

[Drac]

Great subject, many people forget that when attacked, there is no level playing field, there are no rules! You attack with everything you've got. Spit, bite, pinch, pull hair, and claw, but you do what it takes to neutralize your attacker. And when he's down keep going so he doesn't get up. All rules of a "fair" fight" go right out the window, this guy is trying to hurt or kill you.

That's what I said....

 

[Drac]

KIND OF OFF TOPIC POST: When I was in the Police Instructors academy the Master Instructor told me that they had this great plan to teach officers NEVER TO GIVE UP in a fight...They had to bring in a picture of something near and dear to their hearts, no surprize most had pictures of loved ones...The pix were taken and lamenated and put on the string and the officers wore them arround their necks...During and exercise if they stopped resisting the Instructor would remove the neckpiece and scream at them " YOU'RE DEAD,These are no longer yours"...I was told it was a great motivator..Just wanted to share....

 

[MA-Caver]

Great post Carol..

Dont run you mouth..It will only empower them...


Amen to that one...Bite, claw, spit WHATEVER it takes....

Agreed great post!

Yes, don't run off at the mouth. Shut the hell up and watch their every move and the area around them. Constantly be mentally filing away possible avenues of escape should you momentarily incapacitate them. You REALLY don't WANT to kill them do you? Because if you do/want like THEY do...then you, are just as bad as they are.
Killing because you HAVE to and killing because you WANT to are two radically different things.

Agree with the last, #10... There is NO SUCH THING as a fair fight.

 

[MA-Caver]

KIND OF OFF TOPIC POST: When I was in the Police Instructors academy the Master Instructor told me that they had this great plan to teach officers NEVER TO GIVE UP in a fight...They had to bring in a picture of something near and dear to their hearts, no surprize most had pictures of loved ones...The pix were taken and lamenated and put on the string and the officers wore them arround their necks...During and exercise if they stopped resisting the Instructor would remove the neckpiece and scream at them " YOU'RE DEAD,These are no longer yours"...I was told it was a great motivator..Just wanted to share....

Umm... Drac... that's not off topic. :asian:

 

[Drac]

Agreed great post!

Yes, don't run off at the mouth. Shut the hell up and watch their every move and the area around them. Constantly be mentally filing away possible avenues of escape should you momentarily incapacitate them. You REALLY don't WANT to kill them do you? Because if you do/want like THEY do...then you, are just as bad as they are.
Killing because you HAVE to and killing because you WANT to are two radically different things.

Agree with the last, #10... There is NO SUCH THING as a fair fight.

There should have been an 11th...Keep listening and using your peripheral vision to insure he has no buddies sneaking up to assist...

 

[just2kicku]

That's what I said....

It is what you said Drac... I thought it was important enough to say again. I think a lot of people forget that anything goes when being attacked.

 

[Thesemindz]

Well said...You must go to the next level..Most rookies cops are given the Use of Force Continumn aka if the attacker does this you do this..The biggest MISTAKE many make is to meet their attack at the same level..Go to the NEXT one...

Unfortunately, while the government thinks it is acceptable for their employees to defend themselves in this manner, civilians can be criminally prosecuted for escalating the degree of violence in a self defense situation.

If I'm attacked by an empty handed drunk, and I hit him with a pool cue in self defense, in some principalities I can be charged with assault, because my response was beyond what was warranted by the attack. This isn't necessarily the rule everywhere, and usually there is prosecutorial discretion, but everyone has heard the phrase "judged by twelve than carried by six."

I'm not disagreeing. I believe in using overwhelming force to end the confrontation as quickly and as much in my favor as possible. I just expect to face government persecution afterwords.

They don't like it when someone interferes with their monopoly on the use of force.


-Rob

 

[tellner]

Excellent post full of True Facts(tm). There are a few which aren't quite True Facts(tm)...

3. Don't believe the playing field will be level when you are attacked. Conditions will be most advantageous to your attacker and you will be most vulnerable.

A form of pessimism which I can support to a point. The problem with it is that it will blind you to opportunities to shade things in your favor. It leaves the bad guy in control. What you need to do is start changing things to put you in control as soon as possible.

4. Don't apply your social restraint to their attack. The two are not compatible.

Again, to a point. But you have to stop when they're no longer a threat. Once they're running away you can't shoot them in the back except under very special circumstances. If they're incapacitated you a can't give 'em another kick inna fork just because they deserve it.

5. Don't believe you can compete normally with their level of violence. They are abnormal.

I have won a few fights because not because I had calm detached determination but because I was pissed off and damned if that S.O.B. was going to hit me a again. And yes, a good person can match a bad person's level of violence and even exceed it. If you're fighting for your life and are so scared of losing that you break through into the zone of raw survival reflexes you can do appalling damage without even thinking about it.

6. Don't be confrontational or challenging. The situation is bad enough; letting your anger urge you headlong into a situation won't help.

Eh, sometimes. Pushing back at the right time can also convince a predator that there's easier prey down the street among the slow and the weak. If you're being interviewed meek acquiescence is much worse.

7. Don't give up, ever, if attacked.

"Don't stop until you hear the whistle". When we taught WSD that was one of two or three rules. With any luck they won't stop until they hear the whistle

 

[MA-Caver]

Excellent post full of True Facts(tm). There are a few which aren't quite True Facts(tm)...


A form of pessimism which I can support to a point. The problem with it is that it will blind you to opportunities to shade things in your favor. It leaves the bad guy in control. What you need to do is start changing things to put you in control as soon as possible.

Agreed, but folks do need to be prepared that at this point the escalation rate of violence will be blindingly fast. Be prepared.

Again, to a point. But you have to stop when they're no longer a threat. Once they're running away you can't shoot them in the back except under very special circumstances. If they're incapacitated you a can't give 'em another kick inna fork just because they deserve it.

Yeah but it feels good to do so. If there aren't any witnesses around then by all means. Be-cause-that-s-o-b-just-ruined-your-whole-night/day! Each hash mark equates to a kick btw.

I have won a few fights because not because I had calm detached determination but because I was pissed off and damned if that S.O.B. was going to hit me a again. And yes, a good person can match a bad person's level of violence and even exceed it. If you're fighting for your life and are so scared of losing that you break through into the zone of raw survival reflexes you can do appalling damage without even thinking about it.

I have to go with that as well. It is probably why they have those laws/rules/circumstances for civilians and not "trained, experienced LEOs" who are supposed to know when enough is enough. Funny thing is LEO's are just as human as the rest of us... thank God.

Eh, sometimes. Pushing back at the right time can also convince a predator that there's easier prey down the street among the slow and the weak. If you're being interviewed meek acquiescence is much worse.

Sometimes it does... sometimes it doesn't. Depending upon how it's done. Getting all mad and cussing them out and initiating the "c'mon dance" with them IMO isn't going to do the trick. Getting calm and having them see you watching their every move is going to (possibly) un-nerve them enough to know that they picked the wrong one outta the herd... but it may not necessarily deter them. You just might be (in their thinking) more richly padded than they initially thought. All the more reason to give it the old college try.
The hurt you put on them had better deter them the first time and not piss them off. Remember all they may have initially wanted was your money. Now you're giving them a fight? Bonus!

"Don't stop until you hear the whistle". When we taught WSD that was one of two or three rules. With any luck they won't stop until they hear the whistle

On the streets... there are no whistles.

 

[jks9199]

Great post, Carol, and lots of good follow ups.

In my signature, I've got a quote from Rory Miller's book, Meditations on Violence. Rory Miller was a corrections officer, and probably saw more violence than most cops, and definitely than most of the general public. He writes that real violence occurs "closer, faster, more suddenly, and with more power" than we tend to expect. My personal experience backs this up. Point 8 above says not to lie to yourself or your loved ones about the real nature of violence; this is tied to Miller's comment. But there's two sides; we sometimes lie about the amount or nature of violence magnifying it -- or minimizing it. Don't fall into either trap; research and learn about violence and what happens in your area. (See Brian VanCise's blog for a nice comment about this...)

But there's no perfect formula for responding to violence, either. Sometimes, the right thing IS to confront or challenge someone. Put the ball firmly in their court, showing that you're not afraid... and sometimes, they back down. This isn't the same as taunting... but there's a place for a take on the classic "yeah, there's 10 of you, and I've only got 6 bullets... who wants to be first?" approach, too. There's also a time to give them back 110% of what they're giving you...

When it's for real, remember the poster of the frog going down the bird's throat, strangling him on the way!

 

[tellner]

On the streets... there are no whistles.

Exactly. Why do you think we used that as the signal to stop?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Sometimes it does... sometimes it doesn't. Depending upon how it's done. Getting all mad and cussing them out and initiating the "c'mon dance" with them IMO isn't going to do the trick. Getting calm and having them see you watching their every move is going to (possibly) un-nerve them enough to know that they picked the wrong one outta the herd... but it may not necessarily deter them. You just might be (in their thinking) more richly padded than they initially thought. All the more reason to give it the old college try.

You need not use ghetto urban trash talk just to get them to understand. "Go Away" "Leave me alone", or if you insist on less assertive language "Sorry, can't help you".

A dear friend of mine who passed away some five years ago recounted a story where he, his wife and daughter were accosted by a group of downwardly-mobile young inner city entrepreneurs, and all it took was him sweeping his jacket and saying "You REALLY don't want to stop us from getting in our car and driving home". All he had to do was mean it.

Did the fact he was armed help his confidence? Probably. Did they know for sure? I wasn't there. But even plain ordinary speech can have the desired effect, delivered in a fire-and-brimstone tone of voice.

All you have to do is mean it.

The hurt you put on them had better deter them the first time and not piss them off. Remember all they may have initially wanted was your money. Now you're giving them a fight? Bonus!

*SIGH* What did I just spend an entire thread explaining that you MUST ALWAYS ASSUME? That's RI-iiiight!

On the streets... there are no whistles.

Nope.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Dont run you mouth..It will only empower them...

This reminds me of Eli Wallach, in "The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly", when the bad(er) guy was talking to him at gunpoint telling Eli what all bad things he was going to do, and Eli just fired his gun underwater and killed him. Eli said, "If you are going to shoot, shoot, but don't talk".

Now as for retreating, different states have different laws (and Texas is now pretty much like Florida.) But even if the law says you don't have to retreat, keep in mind you will have to explain your actions to a Grand Jury at the least. If what you say to the cops and the GJ don't sound right, then it's 'tell it to the judge' time.

And just because a few here fell you should retreat does not make it moral or immoral or whatever. As they say, the people have spoken, and thus it is felt it IS moral to stand your ground, if need be, instead of retreat. I will also note that virtualy all retreat laws expect you to only retreat if you can do so in complete safety. They don't expect you to turn your back on a serious threat.

Here in Texas IF you have the legal right to be where you are, and IF you did NOT provoke the other person, then you don't have to retreat. But you still have to be in fear of your life and you will have to articulate this to the cops and GJ. Plus if it's not in your home you can still be sued for such as wrongful death.

Now as for the level of force you can use. This will depend alot on where you are. England and Europe have much different laws than the U.S. And even in the U.S. the laws vary!

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=974994

We've covered that ground before!

Deaf

 

[MA-Caver]

I believe in standing my ground and doing what I gotta do, but only for as long until they cannot stand their ground anymore... then I'm outta there.

 

[Drac]

Unfortunately, while the government thinks it is acceptable for their employees to defend themselves in this manner, civilians can be criminally prosecuted for escalating the degree of violence in a self defense situation.

If I'm attacked by an empty handed drunk, and I hit him with a pool cue in self defense, in some principalities I can be charged with assault, because my response was beyond what was warranted by the attack. This isn't necessarily the rule everywhere, and usually there is prosecutorial discretion, but everyone has heard the phrase "judged by twelve than carried by six."Rob

Or as Grandmaster Pellegrini said to me " I'd rather have an ugly trial than a beautiful funeral"...