Young Black men in America

[shesulsa]

At a time when the U.S. economy is on the upswing and more people are finding work, young African American men are falling further behind.

That’s the grim portrait painted by three new and forthcoming books by scholars at Columbia, Georgetown and Princeton universities. The picture isn't new, but the depths of its despair and pathology are.

The U.S. Census Bureau estimates there are about 5 million black men in America between the ages of 20 and 39. The new books, and an earlier one from Harvard, find them losing ground in mainstream American society, despite advances made by black women, presumably part of the same socioeconomic experience.

This vexing problem, caused by a variety of social ills, is equally vexing when scholars consider what causes it.

FULL ARTICLE

 

[Don Roley]

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=474204#post474204


Let me get the popcorn.....opcorn:

The above post is a pretty good expression of what I feel. I think that the jobless rates for young black men are a minor thing compared with the number in jail. If you read the article, the number of black males in jail or who drop out of high school leaps out at you. It is easy to say that the large number of blacks in prison are due to racism. The same goes for black males dropping out of school. I think it is due more to cultural factors, and as such as hell of a lot harder to deal with.

 

[MA-Caver]

Vexing to scholars that wonder what's causing the problem. Seems to me all they got to do is take a step back and look at what's might be causing the problem... it's not just one thing it's a whole bunch of little things that add up to one big problem.
There seems to be now two different social classes of blacks in America, which combined still only make up roughly 12% of the population. The (higher) educated and the non-educated (drop-outs, etc.). There are more black (legitimate) millionaires in this country than ever before but the "have-nots" still don't look to them as role models, the gangstas and experienced felons seem to have a more glamorous attraction than Corporate CEO's or high profile entertainers to the young. Probably because the gangstas and felons adequately express the anger that is being felt by the have-nots. Resentful and misguided anger.
Whites (and other races) in this country aren't helping by continually being biased and racist either, in terms of jobs, housing, education and social interaction.
It is still my belief that it all starts in the home and it must include every home in this country to make that change come about. It may take a generation (or two) but which generation is going to make the start? The civil-rights movement in the 60's and 70's got the ball rolling to be sure but apparently it's not moving fast enough, as evident from the statistics that are shown by that (and other) article(s)/studies.
The general overall hatered and bitterness has got to stop throwing up road blocks or speed-bumps in the progress of making this country a fit place to live for every single individual American. And it begins in the homes, then the schools, then the work place and just about anyplace where a group of people gather.

Oh and the drug war has got to stop being such a joke as well. By making it actually difficult for a young man (black or white or hispanic) to be attracted to the fast big money made by dealing in drugs, and the lifestyle that it promotes, they'll (hopefully) focus their attention elsewhere more positive to their (and everyone else's) futures.

 

[theletch1]

Oh and the drug war has got to stop being such a joke as well. By making it actually difficult for a young man (black or white or hispanic) to be attracted to the fast big money made by dealing in drugs, and the lifestyle that it promotes, they'll (hopefully) focus their attention elsewhere more positive to their (and everyone else's) futures.

Which do you think would be a better fix for that problem? Much tougher enforcement of the laws on the books, new laws or legalization of drugs across the board?

 

[shesulsa]

One HAS to wonder how peer pressure falls into the equation. We can poo-poo it all we want, but it is a social phenomenon that factors in to all colors, all creeds, all cultures everywhere.

One also must wonder about the glorification of the gangsta lifestyle ... specifically gangsta rap/hip hop, crews of girls dancing for one man (pimp-whore pseudo-icon) and all the 'bling' associated with it.

Where have all the classy hippies gone? You know - the ones who are educated, well-adjusted and well-to-do? Why aren't they getting a foot in and helping to lead the country? Their communities?

 

[elder999]

Which do you think would be a better fix for that problem? Much tougher enforcement of the laws on the books, new laws or legalization of drugs across the board?

Legalization is going to prove to be the solution to the problem-that or simply make drugs-possesion, use and sale-punishable by death.

 

[Kacey]

As Shesulsa says, this is a cultural issue - it is a much broader issue than just the drop-out and incarceration rate. In addition, this issue involves other minorities as well - especially Hispanics, for whom the statistics are similarly skewed toward being over-represented in the drop-out and incarcerated population; indeed, not completing high school is highly correlated with incarceration, and may be, to some degree, causal, although the number of factors make it difficult to determine a strict causal relationship.

Some of the factors include:

• Socio-economic factors
  • the expectations for behavior and academic success are different in different socio-economic classes, and are often in opposition
  • crime is seen as a way to get rich quick - which it can be, until the criminal is caught
  • having a prison record, or relatives in prison is, in some cultural groups, a status symbol
  • different cultures place an emphasis on different things - and education is not the emphasis in all cultures
  • for those who are in survival mode, education takes a back seat to finding food and shelter - and that can include keeping the eldest child home to provide child care for the youngest, so the parent(s) can work
  • families with lower income are more likely to move, and to move more frequently, than families with higher incomes, and frequent school changes have a negative effect on education
  • some groups feel that, due to past atrocities aimed at their own ethnic group, they are owed support and should not have to work because of that
  • single parent families are more prevalent in certain socio-economic groups, and while this is not causal, it is correlated with academic difficulties, dropping out, and incarceration - as is having a low income; in today's society, where two incomes are often needed, the two issues are closely related
• Peer pressure
  • during adolescence, teens are struggling to create themselves as individuals separate from their parents... which they often do by copying their peers to prove their individuality
  • socialization is the key factor for many adolescents, and for many, this takes precedence over their education
  • gangs are a strong factor in the drop-out rate and the crime rate; for many young people, they provide a feeling of belonging that is not available elsewhere

There is no easy answer to this issue, just as there is no easy solution - as MA-caver stated, a social change is required, which is a difficult proposition. Until the time comes that completing school and staying out of jail is more attractive than the alternative, this issue will continue to plague us.

 

[Don Roley]

And of course the question is, what can we or the goverment do about this? I do not see much we can do. A lot of this is peer pressure/ culture that would resist outside interferance anyway. We have to change mind sets. But if the goverment tries to tell us how we should think, I would be one of the first to man the trenches in opposition.

Lets look at just one point Kacey brought up.

having a prison record, or relatives in prison is, in some cultural groups, a status symbol

How do you get people to stop glorifying criminals without stomping all over the first ammendment? As individuals we can voice our opposition to this, but then we will be branded racists.

 

[theletch1]

How do you get people to stop glorifying criminals without stomping all over the first ammendment? As individuals we can voice our opposition to this, but then we will be branded racists.

Yes, very often in this discourse points will be made that are not going to popular with the "gangsta" culture and will lead to the racist label. Let's look at the recent case of the senator who was stopped for passing a security check point, slugged the officer and then said he was a racist for the incident. 1) She passed by a security check point during a time when heightened security is on everyones mind 2) She refused to stop when commanded 3) slugged an officer when he attempted to halt her. This set of events points out to me that she was in the wrong in the situation but instead of A) following protocol in the first place B) apologizing for the incident she cried "racist" from the get go. If this was the first response of a senator to deal with her own short comings can anyone doubt the vehemence with which the word will be used in any debate about an entire culture that already feels as if the rest of the world is against them?

 

[elder999]

How do you get people to stop glorifying criminals without stomping all over the first ammendment? As individuals we can voice our opposition to this, but then we will be branded racists.

Oddly enough, having grown up with Italians, many of whom came from family...er...businesses, so to speak, I've seen this same sot of thing in that aspect of American culture-just not as ostentatiously, because it was supposed to be sub rosa on some level, even though it seemed to be a rather open secret for most of my childhood. While noise has been made about racism against Italians in the past, we have shows like The Sopranos (I swear to God, that's my Cub Scout den mother's family!) and a host of movies that also romanticize and to a certain degree glorify criminals.

 

[elder999]

While hesitant to point to racism as the cause of all of this, there are aspects of the article that do point to it being a factor, to whit:

Making matters worse, a forthcoming book, which includes a study of nearly 1,500 private employers in New York City, found that black job applicants with no criminal records weren't any more likely to get a job than white applicants who were just out of prison.

It's also true that the quality of legal representation available to poor people (and Nicky Barnes, the black, onetime king of heroin in N.Y.C. managed to stay out of jail for years because he was rich beyond all dreams of avarice) as well as possible racial bias coul both be factors in leading to higher arrest and conviction rates as well as longer sentences for black men.While not out and out racism, and well within the culpability of the prevalent paradigm, the imagery and cultural issues alluded to in the previous posts-the romanticization of "gangsta culture," its association with certain aspects of fashion and popular culture, as well as language-all can lead to guilt by association.

 

[MA-Caver]

Where have all the classy hippies gone? You know - the ones who are educated, well-adjusted and well-to-do? Why aren't they getting a foot in and helping to lead the country? Their communities?

They've came to realize that the capitalist society that they so hated was right and they're the heads and VP's of major (capitalistic) corporations now. They've probably burned all their hippe pictures, except for the few cherished ones taken at Woodstock ... to prove "I was there!" .... "yeah that guy... with no shirt and the scraggly beard down to his belly button and hair around his ***... yeah man... that's me with the skinny naked chick painted with flowers all over her butt next to me... no man I'm serious that's me!... ya I married that chick... turns out her father owns this company. Gave us this nice 20 bedroom house and our four mercedes too."

 

[MA-Caver]

How do you get people to stop glorifying criminals without stomping all over the first ammendment? As individuals we can voice our opposition to this, but then we will be branded racists.

Want to tell that to Chris Rock? http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bennun/interviews/chrisrock.html
(caution language) the full monologue can be seen/heard here... http://www.metacafe.com/watch/85216/chris_rock_standup/
(double caution... language).

While hilarious ... listening between the lines you can hear a lot of truth in it.