Wing Tzun, body types?

[Nabakatsu]

Alrighty! so.. I'm curious about you guys n gals thoughts are about various body types, and there pros and cons of some of these features, feel free to add you own ideas of course!
muscular in whatever area there would be a fairly significant affect, for example, biceps, for slowing down your punching, ect ect
any mixture of tall short fat skinny, in shape, out of shape, and so on
....just hand a random thought here....
when you see people in WT demos pushing people around with relaxed arms is it because they are just using their core and legs to push people around and so long as the arm doesn't collapse it will work or.. some information on this would be most welcome as well!
I suppose this already off topic so.. feel free to deter a bit yourselves

 

[dnovice]

hello nabakatsu,

I believe if you are strong and big you can blast straight down the center. However if you are small and weaker you need to be fast and work angles more.

just my two cents.

 

[mook jong man]

In the early stages of training a lot of muscularity can be a hinderance , thats why females and skinny men tend to do the techniques a little more correct at first than the others because they cannot depend on strength but must use leverage.

But I also found that as a guy who was heavily into weight training myself , that you also tend to have a better sense of the mind body connection and kinesthetic awareness than people who have never trained with weights , especially if you used free weights not machines.

Eventually with practice of the form and hard training it all sorts itself out , the muscular will learn to relax , the fat will get slim , the skinny will develop muscle.

If you are tall or short it doesn't matter you will find a core of techniques that will work for you , I've found tall lanky people seem to like kicking and short chunky people like me prefer knees and elbows and punching it out.

In regards to people pushing others around with relaxed arms that is a deep subject , but I will just skim over the main points. The power comes from their stance and their ability to move their body as a unified mass with their upper and lower body locked together and co-ordinating that movement with correct angles and structures of their arms while still being relaxed.
The second part of the equation is that they have learnt to focus and project their force at a certain point around the chest area which is on the centreline , I can illustrate this by putting my Bong Sau up against someones arm or Fook Sau .

I start off being totally off the centreline and I slowly track my Bong Sau across horizontally and as long as everthing is correct with forward force and angle , as I start to target this point on his his chest I can look down and see that his toes are lifting and I can easily shift him back.

I am attacking his centre of balance , the reason the Masters are so good is that they can attack this point 100 percent of the time and in fighting , but for us lesser mortals it can be a bit of a hit and miss affair , this is one of the reasons we spend so much time doing Chi sau , so we can learn to focus on this point and attack our opponents balance.

 

[qwksilver61]

The type of people that I have practiced with for a number of years fat, skinny, small ,large...all share one thing iv'e noticed are toned, springy,flexible type of body.allowing genetics...

 

[naneek]

i am 6 foot 2 and quite fat, although stronger than most i have trouble keeping my elbows in and am not very quick however i enjoy the training anyway

 

[dnovice]

i am 6 foot 2 and quite fat, although stronger than most i have trouble keeping my elbows in and am not very quick however i enjoy the training anyway

Question for you naneek. What lineage are you in? And do you feel like you can just plow through people with your chain punches? Thanks.

 

[naneek]

if i wanted to plow through people i guess i could, though i dont, i just dont think i will learn from doing that i want to work on my speed and technique rather than power. yip man - lo man kam lineage

 

[KamonGuy2]

I will add my two cents, being a really really big guy. I'm six foot three and weigh around 25 stone

As stated there are vast differences in training with regards to body types. There are some things I will be able to do that people half my size won't be able to do. And things I can't do that smaller guys can do

With regards to hitting power, if you take two guys of different sizes and train them exactly the same amount of time, the bigger guy will hit harder - that is just simple logic. However, you will often get good chunners who can hit harder than big guys can. For example, Kevin Chan has a more powerful punch than I have. That is simply because he has trained his hands well over the years.

Also some people have a natural ability. I have seen guys training for years and still struggle to produce power. In all honesty, for my size I should be able to hit harder but I'm more keen on training my movement and lightness.

I don't like the generalisation that having big biceps will not suit you for wing chun etc or if you are a big build you won't do it. Look at Sammo Hung or Bruce Lee. Sure they may have been faster without the bulk, but I think we can agree they were/are damn good martial artists

 

[dnovice]

if i wanted to plow through people i guess i could, though i dont, i just dont think i will learn from doing that i want to work on my speed and technique rather than power. yip man - lo man kam lineage

Thanks for the info naneek. Plowing over people in class wouldn't serve you well. However, in a real fight i feel everyone's got to use their strengths and being a big guy strength is one of yours. Combining that with structure and technique can make you lethal. Just my thought. Practice hard.

I will add my two cents, being a really really big guy. I'm six foot three and weigh around 25 stone

As stated there are vast differences in training with regards to body types. There are some things I will be able to do that people half my size won't be able to do. And things I can't do that smaller guys can do

exactly.

With regards to hitting power, if you take two guys of different sizes and train them exactly the same amount of time, the bigger guy will hit harder - that is just simple logic. However, you will often get good chunners who can hit harder than big guys can. For example, Kevin Chan has a more powerful punch than I have. That is simply because he has trained his hands well over the years.

sometimes experience trumps the advantage provided by being bigger.

I don't like the generalisation that having big biceps will not suit you for wing chun etc or if you are a big build you won't do it. Look at Sammo Hung or Bruce Lee. Sure they may have been faster without the bulk, but I think we can agree they were/are damn good martial artists

i don't think being big is a disadvantage. I think its a disadvantage when you try to fight like a smaller person. Build on your strengths while using WC techniques. thats what i believe.

sidenote: i'm also not saying being a big guy is the best thing. I just think big i assume you have strength as an advantage, for the most part at least.

thanks guys.

 

[mook jong man]

It is a good idea to manouver around a big heavy guy as though he is a wooden dummy .
You might not be able to shift him , but you can shift yourself and adjust your positioning so that you only have to deal with one of his big strong arms at a time .

If your smaller your footwork should be quite a bit faster , so use this to your advantage to step 45 degrees around to either side of him and avoid all the big firepower thats coming down the centreline .

 

[Nabakatsu]

I like the idea of constantly shifting around my opponent, but.. catching a nice powerful elbow as they turn and shift weight sounds like a potential risk, I know it becomes pretty silly to try and discuss such matters as if fights happened with 1 move being placed at a time, but I guess I'm curious to know if you think catching a big power shot like that would be the thing to look out for, and if not what, and some preventive measures one might take?
thanks!

 

[mook jong man]

I like the idea of constantly shifting around my opponent, but.. catching a nice powerful elbow as they turn and shift weight sounds like a potential risk, I know it becomes pretty silly to try and discuss such matters as if fights happened with 1 move being placed at a time, but I guess I'm curious to know if you think catching a big power shot like that would be the thing to look out for, and if not what, and some preventive measures one might take?
thanks!

Its not constantly shifting around your opponent , if you are doing that you are just playing around with somebodies arms and sooner or later you are going to cop a wack in the head

It is also not moving around him without having contact with his arms , to be that close to an opponent and not have contact is very dangerous.

The scenario I'm thinking of is a big guy barrelling down the centre with chainpunches , if you are good at doing Tan / Bong you might be able to stand there deflect , trap and eventually open him up .

But if you are not that good then the chances are high that you are simply going to be smashed by all that force coming down the centreline.

So the sensible thing to do is to go around all that force and go to the blind side , whilst maintaining contact and forward force on his punching arm .

This makes sure that if he does try and change his attack to something else we have him monitored and will be able to shut it down before it starts .
If we are just going to use arms I like to do it this way , it comes from the wooden dummy form , the bit in the first section where after you finish the stepping Garn Sau's you pivot back to face the dummy with a Tan Sau and a low horizontal palm strike to the kidneys.

When he charges in and throws the first punch we are going to intercept with a Tan Sau on the outside of his arm, my right arm to his right arm , if you feel as though there is still a lot of force coming in then sink your Tan Sau elbow down a bit into a reverse Tan Sau position to lead his force down.

If you get the timing wrong just deflect the first punch with a high Bong Sau and then get the next punch with your Tan Sau. As you intercept his punch with your Tan Sau , step around and as you step convert your Tan Sau to a Fook Sau and latch his arm down at the same time as you do a low palm strike to his kidneys or if you prefer punch him in the face.

You could also just step around with your Tan Sau and hit without latching , but the latching pulls him into the strike and keeps greater control of his arm by pulling it down thus negating any chance of him doing an elbow strike with that arm.

If he tries to use his other elbow then it has to come from a further distance and by that time if you were doing your job correctly he should have already been well and truly hit by then.