Where Wushu Went Wrong - Article

[Xue Sheng]

Where Wushu Went Wrong

The real culprit threatening traditional Chinese martial arts is not modern wushu or mixed martial arts. It's attrition. Kung fu, by definition, is a skill that takes time and work - a lot of time and work - and most people just don't dedicate enough time and work to perpetuate the art anymore. The road of the warrior is full of hardships, but the responsibility lies within each of us. The only people who can kill traditional kung fu are the traditionalists themselves. Tradition will only be preserved if we, the present generation, successfully hand it down to the next generation. If we fail, there's no one to blame but ourselves.

And for the record, I agree with the above quote

 

[clfsean]

Where Wushu Went Wrong



And for the record, I agree with the above quote

I'll buy that.

 

[Flying Crane]

ayup.

 

[ATACX GYM]

Where Wushu Went Wrong



And for the record, I agree with the above quote

I absolutely agree.

 

[mograph]

Here's a sobering thought: weren't the best martial artists of the past few centuries professionals? You know, convoy escorts and so on? Then couldn't they be viewed in the same way we see professional tennis players who train for hours a day to hone their skills to a fine edge?

Although we still have pro tennis players, could it be said that fewer and fewer people are willing to pay pro CMA artists enough to make a living at it? In other words, to get to the top level of any art, they need to spend a lot of time on it ... as a professional would.

And how many CMA guys can afford to do that and still pay the bills?

On the positive side ... maybe the place to look for continuity would be Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioners. If they need to know martial arts as part of their profession, maybe they would put in the hours to keep their skill level high.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Here's a sobering thought: weren't the best martial artists of the past few centuries professionals? You know, convoy escorts and so on? Then couldn't they be viewed in the same way we see professional tennis players who train for hours a day to hone their skills to a fine edge?

Although we still have pro tennis players, could it be said that fewer and fewer people are willing to pay pro CMA artists enough to make a living at it? In other words, to get to the top level of any art, they need to spend a lot of time on it ... as a professional would.

And how many CMA guys can afford to do that and still pay the bills?

On the positive side ... maybe the place to look for continuity would be Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioners. If they need to know martial arts as part of their profession, maybe they would put in the hours to keep their skill level high.

Just last night I was thinking about this and comparing how I train, how my Taiji sifu trains and how my Sanda sifu trains and I realize I do not train as much as they do and they are both doctors.... I'm not. I also realize that I was attempting to get better and better at my MA by training only my MA awhile back.... I do not do that any longer and I do feel I am getting better... not their level... but getting better.

What brought me around was hearing my Taiji sifu talk about the body weight exercises he does but still somehow maintains a 2 hour a day Taiji routine. My Sanda sifu trains 2 hours a day as well and he also does a lot of body weight training.
How do they get in 2 hours a day and keep up with work and family? Well their day starts at about 4:30 or 5:00 in the morning.

However you are also quite correct, being a professional martial artist makes a big difference and having that profession be necessary to survive makes even a bigger difference. And today many do not have the time or the need to train in that way.
I had a discussion with a Chinese Xingyiquan Sifu, trained in China, about Santi Shi. We were discussing how long you should stand and he said in the old days, when he was first starting to train or the days when his sifu was training 2 to 4 hours was not considered unusual.... but he then said...who has 2 to 4 hours a day to stand in Santi these days so 30 minutes per side is good these days.

My Taiji sifu said something similar about training Taiji.... who has 2 straight hours a day to train these days.

But I also had one Sifu from China tell me you can’t train Americans like Chinese and I asked him why… his response was “You can’t hit Americans for making mistakes”

I also think part of the problem with training CMA today is we train wrong; we get to caught up in the mysticism, the dogma, the exaggerated stories and a bit of hero worship about it and forget that underneath that is some good hard solid and painful training

 

[mograph]

I also think part of the problem with training CMA today is we train wrong; we get to caught up in the mysticism, the dogma, the exaggerated stories and a bit of hero worship about it and forget that underneath that is some good hard solid and painful training

Oh, yes. It's physical training as well as mental and spiritual paradigm shifting. There are too many looking for a shortcut: CHI POWER NOW! Yes, we can get power by taking a path different from western cardio/muscular training, but it's still difficult training. Maybe that's another reason why some Chinese believe westerners can't be trained -- we can't drop our western paradigm of fitness and training.

 

[geezer]

I don't think it's just a matter of how "hard" or even how "smart" you train. For "kung-fu" i.e. "a high level of mastery achieved through long and difficult training" to survive, there must be sufficient motivation and reward. Otherwise you don't attract and maintain a sufficient number of gifted students. It's like why the US hasn't dominated the world in soccer. Our best athletes, those with the brightest professional prospects go into popular sports that reward them with social status as amateurs and later with very lucrative careers as professionals. How can kung-fu compete with that. So instead of the physically gifted, we attract all manner of oddballs and geeks who are caught up in the fantasy of becoming the next "Dragon Warrior" or "Jedi Knight". Heck, I'd put myself in that category... although as I get on in years, I'd settle for being Mr. Miyagi or Yoda. But the reality is that most of us will never be more than good hobbyists no matter how hard we train.

 

[ggg214]

....What brought me around was hearing my Taiji sifu talk about the body weight exercises he does but still somehow maintains a 2 hour a day Taiji routine. My Sanda sifu trains 2 hours a day as well and he also does a lot of body weight training.
How do they get in 2 hours a day and keep up with work and family? Well their day starts at about 4:30 or 5:00 in the morning.

However you are also quite correct, being a professional martial artist makes a big difference and having that profession be necessary to survive makes even a bigger difference. And today many do not have the time or the need to train in that way.
I had a discussion with a Chinese Xingyiquan Sifu, trained in China, about Santi Shi. We were discussing how long you should stand and he said in the old days, when he was first starting to train or the days when his sifu was training 2 to 4 hours was not considered unusual.... but he then said...who has 2 to 4 hours a day to stand in Santi these days so 30 minutes per side is good these days.
....

the same to my master. in his younger time, he trained 3 times everyday, each time was two or three hours. nowaday, he is almost 60s, however he continues training everyday, 3h/day. no break during the training. he don't even drink water when he is training.
therefore, after years' hard training, he can move faster and longer, punch heavier. no matter what you strike, it's easy for him to bring you down.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't think it's just a matter of how "hard" or even how "smart" you train. For "kung-fu" i.e. "a high level of mastery achieved through long and difficult training" to survive, there must be sufficient motivation and reward. Otherwise you don't attract and maintain a sufficient number of gifted students. It's like why the US hasn't dominated the world in soccer. Our best athletes, those with the brightest professional prospects go into popular sports that reward them with social status as amateurs and later with very lucrative careers as professionals. How can kung-fu compete with that. So instead of the physically gifted, we attract all manner of oddballs and geeks who are caught up in the fantasy of becoming the next "Dragon Warrior" or "Jedi Knight". Heck, I'd put myself in that category... although as I get on in years, I'd settle for being Mr. Miyagi or Yoda. But the reality is that most of us will never be more than good hobbyists no matter how hard we train.

I typed out a long response (nothing bad, just a response) but I don’t know what happened, I lost my motivation to even post it right after I finished writing it. I know what CMA is to me I know the history of the styles I choose to train and how they use to train and various views of training today (good and bad) for various reasons. I know how I train, how I trained, I know how I should train, how I want to train and how I hope to be training soon. Beyond that… it is up to the individual as to what they want and what thier motivation is.

But take that for what it is worth since a long lost, and often missed, Member of MT (exile) once labeled me a “genuine, certifiable MA House O' Pain maniac” after my description of a Xingyiquan class that I enjoyed immensely and yes I would say enjoying that class in today’s society makes me an oddball
Enjoy the training