What style you train in?

[Carol]

There have been a few people joining Martial Talk, other than me, that enjoy the agony of Silat training

What style of Silat do you train in? What do you think of your training so far?

 

[tellner]

Way back in the day I did Inosanto Blend which I guess they call Maphilindo these days.

I found a Silat teacher, Brandt Bollers, who was out of Willem and Victor de Thouars' lineage via Chas Clements.

A couple years later Steve Plinck moved to the area. It's been fifteen years and I haven't looked back. He started teaching Bukti Negara. Twelve years ago he stopped teaching the PSBN and started us on Sera. We've been working on that since. Guru Plinck has other Silat, particularly some Minangkabau Harimau from his uncle. He's incorporating more of that when the weather is warmer. Right now we're packed into his (tiny, cramped) garage in freezing weather. Harimau would be an invitation to serious injury

One of the students who passed through his garage over the years was Mushtaq Ali Al-Ansari, collector of obscure martial arts and Wandering Dervish (semi-retired). Mushtaq, my wife and a couple other people are revising the martial arts of the Qadiri-Rifai Tariqa, Pencak Silat Zul Fikari. In a couple weeks we'll be putting the first section of the curriculum onto DVD and distributing it. We would have done it sooner, but we had an opportunity to have someone else pay for Mushtaq's plane ticket out here That's another story in itself. He and Steven Barnes have been doing a lot of interesting stuff with Coach Scott Sonnon (http://rmaxinternational.com), a certifiable genius in physical culture and martial arts.

How do I like it? The stuff makes sense. It's based on sound principles and good movement. It works well and is something that I can do for the rest of my life. I've been blessed with the best teachers one could hope for. What's not to like?

 

[Wes Tasker]

I have been particularly lucky in being a student of Bapak Willem de Thouars for 12 years now. I'm even luckier still in that he teaches me the Silat and Kuntao arts he knows in their entirety and not as some blend. So the Pentjak Silat systems I have learned and am still refining under his tutelage are:

Pentjak Silat Kendang
Pentjak Silat Sera
Pentjak Silat Tjimande
Pentjak Silat Petjut Kilat
Pentjak Silat Tjangkring
Petnjak Silat Tjikampok

Along with the Kuntao systems of:

Quan Chu Xing Yi Kuntao
Baiyun Bagua Zhang Kuntao

So now all I need is another 100 years and hopefully by then I won't make a complete fool of myself when practicing his wonderful arts.

-wes tasker

 

[Carol]

I have been particularly lucky in being a student of Bapak Willem de Thouars for 12 years now. I'm even luckier still in that he teaches me the Silat and Kuntao arts he knows in their entirety and not as some blend. So the Pentjak Silat systems I have learned and am still refining under his tutelage are:

Pentjak Silat Kendang
Pentjak Silat Sera
Pentjak Silat Tjimande
Pentjak Silat Petjut Kilat
Pentjak Silat Tjangkring
Petnjak Silat Tjikampok

Along with the Kuntao systems of:

Quan Chu Xing Yi Kuntao
Baiyun Bagua Zhang Kuntao

So now all I need is another 100 years and hopefully by then I won't make a complete fool of myself when practicing his wonderful arts.

-wes tasker

Sorry Wes, that's already happened. You don't make a complete fool out of yourself.

 

[tellner]

Has Willem ever taught the same curriculum to two students?

 

[Carol]

Heh. I have a hard enough time with Guro Mike Williams as a teacher and Guro Wes as a visitor to the school. I can never remember who trained in what under whom....especially after a couple of head compressions

 

[Wes Tasker]

Todd-

Has Willem ever taught the same curriculum to two students?

I don't know what Bapak has taught to other people. The only person I've had contact with who "was" an instructor under him was Guru Tuan Roberto Torres (who was my teacher for 3 years..) - and Bapak has taught me many things that are the same as he taught him. From some footage I've seen of the Colorado crew - we do share alot of the same forms as well.

Why do you ask?

-wes tasker

 

[JasonASmith]

I don't train in Silat, but we incorporate ideas from Tjimande, which is our O' Sensei's family system...We have touched on various ideas and principles from the system, and we have been taught one of the katas.
Apparently there are numerous weapons-based(mainly bladed) katas that are taught to the upper kyus and to the Yudansha, so I'm chomping at the proverbial bit...
What I've seen and have been taught, I love...Lower to the ground! Yeah!

 

[tellner]

Wes, I've met a fair number of his students over the years. They all seem to have gotten a different mix of ingredients from his "salad bowl" - Willem's words, not mine. I'm guessing it has something to do with what he thinks would best complement their aptitudes. It's also been a matter of minor humor over the years as various seniors have claimed to have "the real stuff" only to find that several others have a curriculum that is just as excellent but slightly different.

 

[Wes Tasker]

Todd-

It's also been a matter of minor humor over the years as various seniors have claimed to have "the real stuff" only to find that several others have a curriculum that is just as excellent but slightly different.

I guess humor is a word for it. I'm not naive enough to think I have "the real" anything.... I just try to do my best to teach what he taught me. Of course this type of "humor" is strewn throughout the martial arts - but the Filipino/Indonesian arts seem to be rife with it. As I'm sure you know even in Sera.

-wes

 

[tellner]

Oh Lord, do I ever. At some point you have to laugh if you don't want to cry.

Just to be clear and avoid confusion, I think that Willem de Thouars has amazing skills and, if anything, too much knowledge to pass on to those of us without his gifts. He chooses a set of things to teach someone based on what he feels they need or would be good at. It fits together. It makes sense. It works. People forget that he's done exactly the same thing with a different set of material to half a dozen other people. And given how quarrelsome Silat and Kuntao players can be, they fight over it.

Same sort of untreated sewer effluent happens in the Sera clan. In spades. With chocolate sprinkles and a cherry on top. Until people like my teacher go to the upper left corner of the map to be as far away from it all as they can without actually sinking into the Pacific.

I swear, if we could stop fighting among ourselves we'd rule the universe.

 

[Trent]

Oh Lord, do I ever. At some point you have to laugh if you don't want to cry.

Just to be clear and avoid confusion, I think that Willem de Thouars has amazing skills and, if anything, too much knowledge to pass on to those of us without his gifts. He chooses a set of things to teach someone based on what he feels they need or would be good at. It fits together. It makes sense. It works. People forget that he's done exactly the same thing with a different set of material to half a dozen other people. And given how quarrelsome Silat and Kuntao players can be, they fight over it.

Same sort of untreated sewer effluent happens in the Sera clan. In spades. With chocolate sprinkles and a cherry on top. Until people like my teacher go to the upper left corner of the map to be as far away from it all as they can without actually sinking into the Pacific.

I swear, if we could stop fighting among ourselves we'd rule the universe.

This is true. I think Guru Plinck is truly outstanding, and I haven't said that about many people at all. I hoping to come visit and say "Hello" to everyone in your neck of the woods one day in the not too distant future.

I try to stay out of the political battles, but it is difficult. For example, I'm sure Uncle has shown Wes Tasker some great material and plenty to work on, best wishes on your journey.

I think your spot on about what Uncle shows to people. I've been observing for some time now, and if you're around long enough you'll see that he does teach the same thing, but perhaps not in the same order or manner, and it's usually strictly due to the student's perceptions, aptitude ability to work the material. As you pointed out, this is classic Indonesian (and Filipino) style instruction. I enjoy it, but the Western mind has to adjust to the idea.

I wanted to mention, I learned quite a bit from Guru Chas, too.

 

[Bobbe]

I specialize in Sundanese and Balinese Silat, but I'll train damn near anything that I can find. I love Harimau, Syahbandar, Kari and Sera in particular.

Silat is only agony in the first few years...If you give it an effort, your tendons will be loose enough to handle the training.

...OR, you'll be in a wheelchair for the rest of your life. I guess it could go either way.

 

[tellner]

I hope you can make it out here, Trent. It's always great to find out that there are real people out there, not just a bunch of AIs (or *** - Artificial Stupidities ) in a server room somewhere in Mumbai. One of Guru Plinck's most serious students is also from Baton Rouge.

 

[Carol]

but perhaps not in the same order or manner, and it's usually strictly due to the student's perceptions, aptitude ability to work the material. As you pointed out, this is classic Indonesian (and Filipino) style instruction.

Silat also focuses the attention more on learning certain principles than it does on learning certain techniques. It's certainly not as structured as something like Kenpo, which lays out a palatte of techniques per belt rank.

In my limited impression, Silat is very artistic. The soft movements, the dance, the way a student is taught principles before applications...even the way the gurus tend to describe something dependent on what their mood is that day.​

But I've also found that what a teacher will teach also depends on the student. When GM Edward Lebe visited our school for a seminar, my training partner and I were paired with each other for nearly all of the seminar. He is nearly a foot taller and nearly 100 pounds heavier than me. On certain applications, Guru Lebe would come around and show me a different application for the same principle. I was smaller and lighter and what was being taught really wasn't working for me being smaller and lighter.

I enjoy it, but the Western mind has to adjust to the idea.

This is torture for me. I have an engineer's brain. I think logically and structurally and it is totally not a match for Silat.

 

[Carol]

I specialize in Sundanese and Balinese Silat, but I'll train damn near anything that I can find. I love Harimau, Syahbandar, Kari and Sera in particular.

Silat is only agony in the first few years...If you give it an effort, your tendons will be loose enough to handle the training.

...OR, you'll be in a wheelchair for the rest of your life. I guess it could go either way.

ROFLMAO!!! Well...I'm hoping its the former


Welcome to Martial Talk Bobbe its great to have you with us here.

Do you teach Silat at all or are you primarily a student?

 

[Bobbe]

Well, I do teach, but I would consider myself a student first and foremost. I've been around the block a few times, seen some things, but I love training more than teaching. I have a small school here in Washington, just outside of Seattle, and I often travel around to train with other teachers.

 

[Bill Bednarick]

This is torture for me. I have an engineer's brain. I think logically and structurally and it is totally not a match for Silat.

Bob Orlando is also an Engineer if I recall correctly.

 

[Bill Bednarick]

I do Maharlika Kuntaw and what ever Silat I can steal.%-}
I've also been known to pilfer from Silat Zulfikari whenever I get the chance.

How's things going Todd? Are you and Tiel coming back to GR this spring?

 

[Carol]

Bob Orlando is also an Engineer if I recall correctly.

I would LOVE to see how he teaches.