What would you (or your Si-fu) say if one of your students trained with someone from another branch of the Wing Chun family, or from another system altogether? Would your reaction be, "Interesting! What did you learn?", would it be, "Look, what you do privately is your own business, but keep it to yourself and don't go blabbing about it in our kwoon", or would it be, "If you want to train with somebody else, you are not welcome around here. Now get the heck out!". In short, how accepting is your school of cross-training, especially when it comes to your closest "competition"?
What if your student trained with the other guy?
- Thread starter geezer
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Hello, I can speak for my Sifu he has trained in other lineages and I think that he would be open to discuss what the student liked about the other style and how would the lineage that we are studying counter or use those other techniques.
I have Si-hings in my class that has studied Moy Yat, William Chueng, Leung Shueng lineages, along with other styles of Karate, Kung Fu (Mantis) and even JKD.
I just wish that other people would have an open mind to other styles. My Si-gung's saying is we will do what we do and let them do what they do. That way we can stop all of the non sense.
Okay I will get off of my soap box!!!
I have Si-hings in my class that has studied Moy Yat, William Chueng, Leung Shueng lineages, along with other styles of Karate, Kung Fu (Mantis) and even JKD.
I just wish that other people would have an open mind to other styles. My Si-gung's saying is we will do what we do and let them do what they do. That way we can stop all of the non sense.
Okay I will get off of my soap box!!!
I personally would not have a problem with this, most instructors I have trained with or know would not have a problem with this either as long as when the student is with us, that students dedicates to what we are working on, and not what another system has taught them.
qwksilver61
Black Belt
First off,think of learning Wing Tsun as a spoken language,at first things were well...., proper,rooted,having a foundation,principles.Then a student modifies/tailors the art to his/her dislikes.Like the English language,at first proper and then bastardized.Much of the original English language has been lost,replaced with cheap slang.Now think of the protractor effect,straightline attacks,the turnstile effect,I could go on and on...we could probably beat this thing to death.Anything other than Wing Chun ,Tsun, Tzun is not Wing Chun
my advice if you want to mix styles then do not call yourself a practitioner of Wing Chun.There are some things that do not warrant explaining,as far as attending some other school of Wing Chun,well all I can say is,once you've had the good stuff,then you can make valid comparisons.If you have ever studied Physics you will know where I am going with this.In other words if you have to use brute force (other than skill) to overcome a larger opponent then you are not practicing true Wing Chun.My opinion of course....open for debate.Democracy remember?
my advice if you want to mix styles then do not call yourself a practitioner of Wing Chun.There are some things that do not warrant explaining,as far as attending some other school of Wing Chun,well all I can say is,once you've had the good stuff,then you can make valid comparisons.If you have ever studied Physics you will know where I am going with this.In other words if you have to use brute force (other than skill) to overcome a larger opponent then you are not practicing true Wing Chun.My opinion of course....open for debate.Democracy remember?
qwksilver61
Black Belt
OK. let me admit that I blew it, I went off on a tangent.Yeah, I would be a little insulted if my student were to leave and train at another school. Depending on the circumstances.Quality,attention to detail and whether I was genuinely interested in my students progress.Years and distance is also a factor.Besides;"you can lead a horse to water but......"
I can agree with you.
There is nothing wrong with cross training with ANOTHER art.
The SAME art but different lineage is totally different. There will be a mixing of the both. I could see if they wanted to learn but after they have spent lets a GOOD amount of time learning one system. I would tell them it would be wise to pick one and stick with it a year or so and then see about learning another lineage but I wouldnt support 2 at the same time if they are a beginner.
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
Kamon and Kevin Chan is very tolerant of other styles and wing chun styles. I believe he still meets up with his old training buddies from his Samuel Kwok days and has made a lot of friends with extremely good wing chun instructors and other martial artists.
My attitude if a student leaves to train elsewhere, is that it is a shame, but they obviously have their reasons
Luckily I have never lost students to other wing chun schools (yet!).
I encourage my students to train or have a look at other wing chun schools of they can (especially if they go on holiday), but usually they aren't allowed through the door!!
All wing chun schools have something different to offer. Even amongst the Kamon schools you will find different styles of teaching and different ideas.
Some are very physical, some are very traditional, some are very fitness based and some are all rounders
If your sifu ever says that you must never train in any other school, you should leave. There is a distinct difference between being advised not to go to a certain school to train and TOLD that you can't go to any other school
My attitude if a student leaves to train elsewhere, is that it is a shame, but they obviously have their reasons
Luckily I have never lost students to other wing chun schools (yet!).
I encourage my students to train or have a look at other wing chun schools of they can (especially if they go on holiday), but usually they aren't allowed through the door!!
All wing chun schools have something different to offer. Even amongst the Kamon schools you will find different styles of teaching and different ideas.
Some are very physical, some are very traditional, some are very fitness based and some are all rounders
If your sifu ever says that you must never train in any other school, you should leave. There is a distinct difference between being advised not to go to a certain school to train and TOLD that you can't go to any other school
My SiFu, Allan CK Lee, encourages his students to go out and see other styles and teachers. He says if you find a good teacher let him know so he too can say hi.
I don't understand why the big guns of wing chun are so anal about keeping their lineage pure. After all, don't all branches come from the same source?
I do understand, however, the concept of why an instructor would want a begginer to commit to one style/branch initially.
I do understand, however, the concept of why an instructor would want a begginer to commit to one style/branch initially.
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
This is usually because every wing chun school will have a slightly different style to each other. I am sure that Kamon is far different to wing chun styles in the US. Ihave gone to classes in and around my town and they all have different teaching methods and training styles
And a lot of wing chun branches do not come from the same source
Most come from Yip Man, but people like Benny Meng claim different lineages
It is rumoured that the wing chun system formed out of the Shaolin temple and that some monks who fled the temple passed down the techniques
This is a subset of the Ng Mui story
OOps. What I meant to say is I would like to see how WC is done by each different lineage. It seems here in the U.S. Yip Man version is the predominant version that we see but I wonder what other lineages look like.
I know living in China you have more options as to which WC you would like to learn b/c of the number of lineages that are there.
qwksilver61
Black Belt
Just a note; There are usually some things that all of the Wing Chun System
styles share.Just food for thought,apply physics....and you will usually come up with a pretty good answer.Ng Mui was a woman after all.....The turnstile effect does work if executed properly.....grabbing the ground through the use of adduction.....using the center (shortest distance between two points) as a basis for attack and defense......protractor effect.....no weight on the front leg frees up the antennae so to speak for rapid movement and quick change of direction.......rapid fire chain punches (again shortest distance between two hands...and your opponent,not to mention repetitive striking and re-loading,simultaneously) PRESERVING THE gravity of the trunk,Hmmmm?
what could that mean? Pop quiz for some of you.RE-DIRECTION/seeking..utilizing all of the factors above.Linking all of these techniques together.....going "Full AUTO pilot" indispensable! Was force ever a factor in the beginning?Lack of proper body mechanics? I'm sure they ran into bigger foes from time to time.Food for thought.nuff said.
styles share.Just food for thought,apply physics....and you will usually come up with a pretty good answer.Ng Mui was a woman after all.....The turnstile effect does work if executed properly.....grabbing the ground through the use of adduction.....using the center (shortest distance between two points) as a basis for attack and defense......protractor effect.....no weight on the front leg frees up the antennae so to speak for rapid movement and quick change of direction.......rapid fire chain punches (again shortest distance between two hands...and your opponent,not to mention repetitive striking and re-loading,simultaneously) PRESERVING THE gravity of the trunk,Hmmmm?
what could that mean? Pop quiz for some of you.RE-DIRECTION/seeking..utilizing all of the factors above.Linking all of these techniques together.....going "Full AUTO pilot" indispensable! Was force ever a factor in the beginning?Lack of proper body mechanics? I'm sure they ran into bigger foes from time to time.Food for thought.nuff said.
BFL
Orange Belt
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My Sifu himself has learned 3 different families of W.C. and has taught me 2 of them. One of them is a Yip Man system and the other is Peng Nams system. They're very different from each other but I feel very comfortable in both systems. From this experience and speaking with Sifu's in other families, I do not believe that any one system is the "true" system, just variations of the same origin as disimanated down through the generations. Applying the same principals, theories and concepts, just with their own flavor if you will. My understanding is that in the very beginning of the art there were no forms or weapons, just fighting concepts etc., and then forms, weapons and the dummy were added and comformed to the existing theories etc. I personally believe that at least experiencing, if not necessarily learning another system, helps to give a more complete understanding (from more than one perspective) of this art we call Wing Chun. One can never posses too much knowledge as long as it does not lead one toward confusion. Thank you,
Peace to all,
BFL
Peace to all,
BFL
