What does a kiyhap do for the individual technique you use it on?

[skribs]

Kiyhap - focused spirit shout.

I'm not asking whether or not it works - because I've seen it work. I'm asking how it works. A kiyhap, grunt, or even a sharp exhale is important when exerting a lot of force. You know of it most prominently in martial arts, but I see it a lot in weight-lifting as well. When doing low weight in a high volume of reps, you're supposed to have a good pattern of breathing. Exhale on the work, inhale on the reset.

This jives with most of what I understand from the kiyhap. Kiyhaping is an exhale, which means you will then inhale. If you remember to breathe, then you will more likely have breath later on in the fight. It's a way to keep up your stamina.

I also know that kiyhaps do several other things:

• Raise alarm
• Scare your attacker
• Give you confidence
• Makes your performance sound good
• Keeps your energy up (not just your stamina)

But let's circle back to the question - what does it do for the individual technique? I've seen students who can't break a board until they give a very loud kiyhap. That has nothing to do with stamina. I've also seen weight lifters at the end of their set grunt and yell to push through. Or, on a "max weight" set of one reps, they'll do the same.

What is it that yelling does to give extra power for a single technique? I've seen it work, but I don't know how.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What is it that yelling does to give extra power for a single technique? I've seen it work, but I don't know how.

It can adjust your breathing for that particular technique.

Here is an example.

 

[Danny T]

Actually studies shown there is more power generated by holding the breathe during the hardest part of the work load. More by as much as almost 20%. Exhalation should begin just as you get to the last 1/3 point of the movement. Exhaling too soon greatly decrease thoracic pressure and weakens the stability of the spine which prevents you being able to transfer force from your legs to your arms.

 

[skribs]

Actually studies shown there is more power generated by holding the breathe during the hardest part of the work load. More by as much as almost 20%. Exhalation should begin just as you get to the last 1/3 point of the movement. Exhaling too soon greatly decrease thoracic pressure and weakens the stability of the spine which prevents you being able to transfer force from your legs to your arms.

The kiyhap usually occurs on impact and at follow through.

Does the timing of the kiyhap help hold the breath through the initiation of the technique?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Kiyhap - focused spirit shout.

I'm not asking whether or not it works - because I've seen it work. I'm asking how it works. A kiyhap, grunt, or even a sharp exhale is important when exerting a lot of force. You know of it most prominently in martial arts, but I see it a lot in weight-lifting as well. When doing low weight in a high volume of reps, you're supposed to have a good pattern of breathing. Exhale on the work, inhale on the reset.

This jives with most of what I understand from the kiyhap. Kiyhaping is an exhale, which means you will then inhale. If you remember to breathe, then you will more likely have breath later on in the fight. It's a way to keep up your stamina.

I also know that kiyhaps do several other things:

• Raise alarm
• Scare your attacker
• Give you confidence
• Makes your performance sound good
• Keeps your energy up (not just your stamina)

But let's circle back to the question - what does it do for the individual technique? I've seen students who can't break a board until they give a very loud kiyhap. That has nothing to do with stamina. I've also seen weight lifters at the end of their set grunt and yell to push through. Or, on a "max weight" set of one reps, they'll do the same.

What is it that yelling does to give extra power for a single technique? I've seen it work, but I don't know how.

A couple of thoughts on this, though we use kiai/kiyhap differently than you do.

When you either hold your breath (opening a jar of pickles) or exhale with pressure (lifting/kiyhap), you actually do at least two things:

• Raise your blood pressure slightly
• Engage core muscles to link your upper and lower body

There's probably more to it, but that's enough for the understanding I need.

Another benefit is that it gets the air out, and those engaged core muscles provide some help if you get hit.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Actually studies shown there is more power generated by holding the breathe during the hardest part of the work load. More by as much as almost 20%. Exhalation should begin just as you get to the last 1/3 point of the movement. Exhaling too soon greatly decrease thoracic pressure and weakens the stability of the spine which prevents you being able to transfer force from your legs to your arms.

As I understand, Daito-ryu actually teaches a delayed kiai. They'll strike, then kiai on the return stroke. They're using that held breath, and the kiai enforces it (you can't kiai well if you have no breath left).

 

[skribs]

As I understand, Daito-ryu actually teaches a delayed kiai. They'll strike, then kiai on the return stroke. They're using that held breath, and the kiai enforces it (you can't kiai well if you have no breath left).

Interesting. In Taekwondo we kiyhap at the moment of impact.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Interesting. In Taekwondo we kiyhap at the moment of impact.

As do we in NGA. I saw a video where Kondo Sensei (the elder brother, I believe) explained the reason behind this (which I've approximated in my post). It must take some training to get right, because when I try to do it, everything feels off-timing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

- Raise your blood pressure slightly.
- Engage core muscles to link your upper and lower body.

I'll just add one more reason:

- 100% commitment. Win or lose, now it's the time. I'm not going to wait any longer. If I die, I'll take you down to hell with me. If I lose balance, you will be on the bottom and I'll be on the top.

 

[dvcochran]

The best example for me that comes to mind is breaking. No one ever "taught" me how to break. It is an integral part of all our testing's but we never practice the actual break. We work on the techniques, mechanics, and power on a target, some hard but mostly soft.
I love watching the faces of people when they come up to break at testing. Some you can tell have the right mindset and are dialed in before ever addressing the boards, some are freaked out before testing even started. It can be a real process talking the latter through their break.
I use it as much for mental preparation as anything else. When doing a tough break (any break I think) I get my feet set if it is stationary and take a second or two to clear my head. Then I do as strong a kihap as I can before striking. And again as I make contact. A double breath of sorts. It works for me.
I do agree there is at least a marginal power boost when performed correctly and at the right time.

 

[JP3]

A couple of thoughts on this, though we use kiai/kiyhap differently than you do.

When you either hold your breath (opening a jar of pickles) or exhale with pressure (lifting/kiyhap), you actually do at least two things:

• Raise your blood pressure slightly
• Engage core muscles to link your upper and lower body

There's probably more to it, but that's enough for the understanding I need.

Another benefit is that it gets the air out, and those engaged core muscles provide some help if you get hit.

What Gerry said.

Personally, I don't think the loud shouting has anything to do witht he functional effects of the kihap. I was able to get the same effects during Muay Thai training and fighting silently, but the breathing pattern was the same as Dan indicated above. Breath held, but released explosively at the ending phase of the movement... but remember, if striking, the ending phase of the movement is the penetration phase... it's not specifically timed to impact. Less actual air volume in the lungs means that the body isn't "inflated," and we all know what happens when you drop an inflated ball. BouncyBouncyBouncyBouncy

I started using kihap in my judo also, anytime there'd be an explosive release of potential, as in the execution of shoulder & hip throws, and the bigger leg throws like uchimata and haraigoshi. The increased power delivery due to the connected core is something that can easily be felt. Easy to compare doing the technique with, or without, the kihaps' core contraction.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What Gerry said.

Personally, I don't think the loud shouting has anything to do witht he functional effects of the kihap. I was able to get the same effects during Muay Thai training and fighting silently, but the breathing pattern was the same as Dan indicated above. Breath held, but released explosively at the ending phase of the movement... but remember, if striking, the ending phase of the movement is the penetration phase... it's not specifically timed to impact. Less actual air volume in the lungs means that the body isn't "inflated," and we all know what happens when you drop an inflated ball. BouncyBouncyBouncyBouncy

I started using kihap in my judo also, anytime there'd be an explosive release of potential, as in the execution of shoulder & hip throws, and the bigger leg throws like uchimata and haraigoshi. The increased power delivery due to the connected core is something that can easily be felt. Easy to compare doing the technique with, or without, the kihaps' core contraction.

Your point about volume is entirely correct. I taught at a YMCA for a while, with a meeting room next door. I silenced my kiai, and have to actually remind myself to make noise now. I point out to my students that they're not allowed to be silent until they use it properly - the noise is how I (and sometimes they) can tell they're doing it right. When I go back to my old school, I have to actually remember to make noise, because those 2 years at the Y built a habit I'm actually happy with, where I only make the noise when I need to kiai a bit harder (hard falls, for instance, or when accepting a punch).

 

[hoshin1600]

while the OP is more about a vocalization during a particular physical action, i would add that a vocalization in combat is often a method to release and control the effects of adrenaline and fear. as a member of the primate species we do that. we make monkey noises before and during confrontation.

 

[Buka]

I use them in various ways. Sometimes to motivate myself, get psyched up a bit. The fellas always said, "There he goes with that Pig Latin Chop Sockey crap, best get the hell out of the way."

 

[paitingman]

Lot of 1 or 2 syllable kihaps in tkd.
You hear a lot of "Ba Cho" and "Ba Shay" haha idk how to spell it out.

I had a mentor say first syllable during impact for power. Second syllable can be more expressive/communicative. Expressing celebration or some taunting/threatening message to your opponent.
Kihaps can become a very personal and very expressive sound.

I like getting people to let loose and kihap just to get over fears of looking silly and accept the way they sound and express themselves and let it out.

 

[paitingman]

You see a lot in Muay Thai as well.
"Ah- Hooy" over and over during sparring from fighters and spectators.

It's expression. Celebration. Taunting. Whatever.
You can definitely make some statements with a silly sound lol.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I like getting people to let loose and kihap just to get over fears of looking silly and accept the way they sound and express themselves and let it out.

To me, this might be one of the more valuable uses of kiai/kihap. I love the progression I see from some students. They show up throwing tiny punches with a tiny sound. Sometime later, they've learned to be bolder with both, and that confidence isn't usually limited to what goes on in the dojo.

 

[Flying Crane]

We actually don’t use a ki-hap/ki-ai. It seems to be uncommon in the Chinese methods in general. We simply breathe.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

We actually don’t use a ki-hap/ki-ai. It seems to be uncommon in the Chinese methods in general. We simply breathe.

I originally learned using kiai quite a lot. Then for a couple of years I taught next to a meeting room. I learned to kiai without the yell. I teach beginners the sound, because it's much easier to tell when they're doing it right if they make noise, but I don't kiai audibly as much as I used to. I suspect in Chinese methods, they simply move more directly to the no-noise version.

 

[O'Malley]

Just a couple of thoughts in addition to what has already been said. The kiai/kihap can also have the following functions:

- increase your focus and bring a sense of danger to an otherwise formal training (I'm thinking about the forms in old school jujutsu/kenjutsu);
- linked to the above, function as a safety feature by bringing your partner's attention to the attack so that he doesn't let himself get hurt;
- release tension, which is important both for conditioning and for dealing with stressful situations like combat;
- develop a sense for rythm.