What Do We Do About Iraq Now? Thoughts?

[Jonathan Randall]

What Do We Do About Iraq Now? Thoughts? Casualties, American Armed Forces' as well as Iraqi civilian are rising. What are some non-partisan answers to the dilemna of what to do in Iraq. Withdraw? Partition? Stay the Course? Thoughts?

This is NOT a thread about shoud we or should we not have invaded Iraq. It happened. This is a brainstorming session about what to do now - not four years ago. If you want to discuss THAT topic, start your own darn thread.

 

[jazkiljok]

of the top of my head. we leave. we got rid of saddam, now let them sort out their future.

 

[Hand Sword]

I think leaving would destroy our credibility for generations, causing more problems in the future. I would take an inventory of currently trained Iraqi forces, keep training more, have them join up with our troops and go on a real offensive. Start at a particular area, Near a border region, to stop more problems from coming in, make sure, or do what ever is needed to totally lock it down. Then, block by block, Expand it, and leave Iraqi's in charge. Slowly, we would make it back to our greenzone, where we could leave, and their forces would be in charge of their country.

It would be tedious, but, at least our handcuffs would be off our military, and the fight would be brought to them, instead of us standing around, and waiting to get blown up.

 

[MBuzzy]

Unfortunately, we have dug ourselves a fairly deep hole. It would be wonderful to just pull out completely and get everyone home...but it isn't that easy. Thought Saddam was a ruthless dictator, there was stability in the country. We have now eliminated their government and put into place a very shaky one. Because of our actions, the Iraqi people can no longer stand on their own.

I can tell you that most of the farmers do want us gone, they see no purpose for us anymore - but they do not hesitate to send their children to beg for food from our convoys. The business don't ever want us to leave, because we are pumping millions of dollars into the infrastructure and economy of the country. The Government may or may not want us to leave, but they realize that they need us to maintain order and stability. The bottom line is that we have placed them in this situation and if we leave now, the country will fall apart.

Before we can leave, we must ensure that the government has stabilized and that the police force and Iraqi army can keep the peace on their own. At this point, they are still not there, though they are doing much better, there is still a great deal of corruption and sadly...incompetance.

The biggest problem with our being in Iraq is also our biggest saving grace. While there, we are drawing the fire of the insurgency, which falls onto the troops in the field there, putting them in danger. But if we were not there, the same people would be free to come to our soil and attack those who are unprepared. Soldiers in the field have the advantage of training, equipment, intelligence, and vigilance. Here on our home soil....we aren't prepared and we're not expecting it.

So where do we go and what do we do? Good question....In my opinion, for what it is worth, we continue a gradual draw down, slowly transitioning control to the Iraqi government, police force, and army, but stay as advisors and a "safety net." Will we ever be gone from Iraq? I don't believe so...I think that we will maintain a military presence there, much like we do in Korea for quite some time. But we can draw down forces much much more as the country gains stability.

 

[MBuzzy]

And for the record, I assure you, no one is standing around waiting to be blown up. There are no handcuffs on the military, they perform their mission as necessary. We ARE taking the fight to them, but we are against an unseen enemy whose tactics are immoral by our standards. The people we are fighting are not an organized army...they are guerillas....actually, not even that, they are rogues of an insurgency fueld by the extremist beliefs of a religion - which is used to sway the uneducated.

And....the "green zone" is one of the most dangerous places in Iraq.

But, Hand Sword, you are completely right, the place to start is near a border. Securing the borders to stop the influx of Syrians, Iranians, and Saudi is very important.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Unfortunately, we have dug ourselves a fairly deep hole. It would be wonderful to just pull out completely and get everyone home...but it isn't that easy. Thought Saddam was a ruthless dictator, there was stability in the country. We have now eliminated their government and put into place a very shaky one. Because of our actions, the Iraqi people can no longer stand on their own.

I can tell you that most of the farmers do want us gone, they see no purpose for us anymore - but they do not hesitate to send their children to beg for food from our convoys. The business don't ever want us to leave, because we are pumping millions of dollars into the infrastructure and economy of the country. The Government may or may not want us to leave, but they realize that they need us to maintain order and stability. The bottom line is that we have placed them in this situation and if we leave now, the country will fall apart.

Before we can leave, we must ensure that the government has stabilized and that the police force and Iraqi army can keep the peace on their own. At this point, they are still not there, though they are doing much better, there is still a great deal of corruption and sadly...incompetance.

The biggest problem with our being in Iraq is also our biggest saving grace. While there, we are drawing the fire of the insurgency, which falls onto the troops in the field there, putting them in danger. But if we were not there, the same people would be free to come to our soil and attack those who are unprepared. Soldiers in the field have the advantage of training, equipment, intelligence, and vigilance. Here on our home soil....we aren't prepared and we're not expecting it.

So where do we go and what do we do? Good question....In my opinion, for what it is worth, we continue a gradual draw down, slowly transitioning control to the Iraqi government, police force, and army, but stay as advisors and a "safety net." Will we ever be gone from Iraq? I don't believe so...I think that we will maintain a military presence there, much like we do in Korea for quite some time. But we can draw down forces much much more as the country gains stability.

Thank you for that post, sir, it was EXACTLY what I was looking for when I started this thread - non-partisan, reasoned consideration of the issue. Great points!

Thank you as well, Handsword. Let's hope this thread continues on this productive road...

 

[Marginal]

Dump Afghanistan off to Taliban insurgents. Then with those troops freed up, lock down Baghdad and... Well... If I tell you, then the enemy will know too.

 

[Hand Sword]

That's another issue all together. But, Yeah, they should've been finished off before Iraq.

 

[MBuzzy]

Agreed - two front wars have been the downfall of plenty of great armies.

Pulling out immediately, though, is not the answer to either front.

 

[MBuzzy]

Hand Sword - I'm sorry if that came off harshly, it definately wasn't intended that way.

This is a very passionate subject for a lot of people - including me, so I will try to re-read my posts a bit more objectively!!!

 

[michaeledward]

we continue a gradual draw down,

Continue ?

Continue ? ? ?

You do realize that in the past 30 days, the United States Military Deployment in Iraq has reached the highest it has been since launching the invasion. (current deployement approximately 150,000 US Troops).

The numbers are going up ... not down.

The Military planners are telling the Secretary of Defense that the current numbers deployed in Iraq will need to be in place through 2010. Which means even higher numbers for the United States, as the 'coalition partners' continue to withdraw their forces.

Facts are not neutral. Darn it all.

I guess I am just a 'wishful thinkin' kinda guy ... when the 'type of conversation' we want to have is disconnected from the reality on the ground.

 

[Hand Sword]

Hand Sword - I'm sorry if that came off harshly, it definately wasn't intended that way.

This is a very passionate subject for a lot of people - including me, so I will try to re-read my posts a bit more objectively!!!

No problem. Everything is cool. My you be safe and be home soon.

My respect and prayers to all of you. :asian:

And a big Thank You!

 

[Don Roley]

So where do we go and what do we do? Good question....In my opinion, for what it is worth, we continue a gradual draw down, slowly transitioning control to the Iraqi government, police force, and army, but stay as advisors and a "safety net."

By draw down, I assume that you mean take a lower and lower profile of things while giving more and more control to the Iraqi government. The numbers of troops can go up or down depending as needed.

I think you are right in trying to draw down the number of American faces on this thing. In terms of heavy lifting, specialty jobs and such I think the Americans will be needed for a long time. But the more Iraqi troops are out there on the streets and calling the shots on a daily basis, the less the people will resent our helping them. That is if we can keep some heavy influence on the government there. Despite what Kofi Annon and a lot of others think, I believe we should have resisted the pressure and built up more democratic institutions from the ground up. A few years with free press, then elections for local areas and only after all this a national election. Now we have to try to build up a lot of things at the ground level instead of starting there.

 

[Tez3]

I don't want to be seen as complaining here but this week most of my senior students in our martial arts club left for Iraq, most of the junior students fathers and some mothers also left for there. I am very afraid for them as I am for friends in Afghanistan. i know your concern is for your own troops naturally but we also have a great many troops ( and close friends and loved ones) fighting over there. We have already had too many funerals in my local church. We live and work on the biggest Garrison in Europe, it's very quiet now almost eerie as most of the Regiments are away in Iraq. Please God they come back but we know some won't. Sorry to hijack thread, I just wanted you to realise perhaps that it's not your problem alone.

 

[MBuzzy]

By draw down, I assume that you mean take a lower and lower profile of things while giving more and more control to the Iraqi government. The numbers of troops can go up or down depending as needed.

Exactly right, over the past year or so, we have been drawing down our "footprint" in the country, reducing the amount of bases we are at and where are troops are - thereby reducing our influence. As we clear out of areas, they are turned back over to the Iraqi government. We are still there - but not as spread out. This means we can still help when necessary, but still leave the affairs to the Iraqis.

I accepted a long time ago that we are going to be there for a long time. But we are running out of forces - the Army is stretched so thing that the other services are being called in to supplement their forces. AF deployments are going up by a lot in years to come, and yet we are cutting thousands of people.

 

[MJS]

What Do We Do About Iraq Now? Thoughts? Casualties, American Armed Forces' as well as Iraqi civilian are rising. What are some non-partisan answers to the dilemna of what to do in Iraq. Withdraw? Partition? Stay the Course? Thoughts?

This is NOT a thread about shoud we or should we not have invaded Iraq. It happened. This is a brainstorming session about what to do now - not four years ago. If you want to discuss THAT topic, start your own darn thread.

Oddly enough, I had this same discussion with a co-worker this past weekend. He is more up to speed than I regarding all the happenings, but IMO, he brought up some good points. If we were to leave, I'm sure that the various groups in the region would begin to fight more than they are doing now. Would other surrounding countries get involved? Would the price of gas rocket higher than it already is? Seems to me, that the rules of NATO pretty much dictate that we're there. I'm sure we could pull out any time we're ready, but would the end results cause more problems that we have now?

Personally, I hate to pick up the paper, turn on the TV or radio and hear about another group of soldiers that were killed, etc. Unfortunately, I don't see this ending any time soon.

Mike

 

[CoryKS]

What Do We Do About Iraq Now?

Use it as a staging ground to invade Iran.

 

[heretic888]

Use it as a staging ground to invade Iran.

Which was probably the plan all along.

Our occupation of Iraq has been solely for the purpose of what the PNAC has called "Pax Americana" or, as some political scientists have called it, the "benevolent hegemony" (which is kind of like saying "fast turtle" or "honest politician").

Go to the PNAC's website here. They've been planning this stuff since before George W. Bush was even elected in 2000.

Laterz.

 

[Aikironin]

Well as someone who has been there, I would agree with most everyone in stating that we have inadvertantly created the dilemma we are trying to extricate ourselves from. That being said, we should IMHO, let parts of Iraq go...i.e. Kurdistan, a) they are stable b) have autonomy and could exist without the larger mass of Iraq, considering that most of Arab borders are somewhat arbitrary lines that were created by Europe at the end of WWI. Why continue to make people who traditionally and culturally do not want to coexist? This would be the one of the first common sense applications to the region. This may alienate Turkey, but last time I checked who cares about Turkey? Any strategic importance they have is a cold war relic that can be replaced by moving US bases to Kurdistan who more likely would be proud to have us.
Also the American people need to realize that we as a country have a military presence in Every country we have ever been in a war and beaten. Japan, Germany, and even England and the last time we fought them was 1812! The death and dismemberment of US soldiers in Iraq is horrible, but turn on the local news and you will see more death and lives ruined on the local news, in our own communities. Rumsfield needs to go...and America still needs to stay focused on the dilemma we created. Bumper sticker slogans and overly simplistic answers will not end the debate. Be reminded only two things have ever died for you. Jesus for your soul, and the American GI for your freedom.

 

[Makalakumu]

Which was probably the plan all along.

Our occupation of Iraq has been solely for the purpose of what the PNAC has called "Pax Americana" or, as some political scientists have called it, the "benevolent hegemony" (which is kind of like saying "fast turtle" or "honest politician").

Go to the PNAC's website here. They've been planning this stuff since before George W. Bush was even elected in 2000.

Laterz.

This is why Dick Cheney told us that we'd be at war for the rest of our lives. And this is why Norman Podhoretz calls this endeavor WWIV.

So, what do we do about Iraq?

I say Cut and Run.

Everything about what this administration plans to do is impossible. Hell, the Iraq War itself is going to bankrupt this country. Right now, as of this point, we will spend $1,000,000,000,000 dollars on it and NONE of it has been added to our national debt. If we spend another two years there, we will double that.

Remember Cheney's quote. "War for the rest of our lives."

Who is going to pay for this? Who is ultimately going to get stuck with this foolishness? Our children. My children.

We are literally blowing away our futures, our children's futures, all of our hopes and dreams by attempting to monopolize the oil in the middle east.

American should be shamed for what we have done. President Bush and all of the PNACers should be forced to go to the UN and apologize to the world and then they should spend the rest of their lives in prison for treason against this country.

I say Cut and Run. We found a huge beehive hanging in a tree and we knocked it down and instead of getting the **** out of there, we are kicking the damn thing like a football.

This war for Oil is one we cannot win.