We've Beaten Saddam Up...

[Jeff Boler]

Darn. Does anyone else feel sorry for poor old Saddam? We took away his country, and now we've beaten him up while being detained.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/21/D8EKOTGO2.html

Give me a break.

 

[Flying Crane]

Darn. Does anyone else feel sorry for poor old Saddam? We took away his country, and now we've beaten him up while being detained.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/21/D8EKOTGO2.html

Give me a break.

well, when we sink to their level, it does make it harder for us to cry foul when they torture and execute our own people who are over there. Eye for an eye, and all, it just escalates and never ends. It's just very very bad policy to torture and beat prisoners, even people like Mr. Hussein. If you torture to get information out of people, all you will get is what information they think you want to hear. It's not reliable.

If you torture out of vindictive reasons, even if the person is a terrible person, that just goes against some of the basic foundations upon which our country was built. It's very bad, and quite shameful if it is true.

 

[Jeff Boler]

Well, what you have to do is bring into question why Saddam is claiming to have been mistreated. Do I honestly believe him? Absolutely not. But when you have democrats and republicans who should be democrats (ex. John McCain) crying about torture and how bad we are treating the Iraqis, Saddam would be stupid not to attempt to use it in his own defense.

You are not for a minute going to get me to believe that we are on the same level as this idiot. He's tortured and killed his own people for years, and I think that part of history has been forgotten....intentionally, due to political motivations.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Anyone who believes anything Saddam says, simply because he says it, is a fool, and not worthy of serious regard.

What's more, we would have to do QUITE a lot to get on Saddam's level. That Saddam hasn't had his eyes gouged out with a hot poker is evidence that we haven't sunk 'to his level'. Actually, to truly get down on Saddam's level, we'd have to bring his wife and daughters in, rape them, torture them, and then execute them...in FRONT of him, to TRULY be said to be on 'Saddam's level'. Being a 'little rough' with Saddam, is LIGHTYEARS from being on Saddam's level.

It is humorous, however, to actually think Saddam wants to whine about being 'tortured' when thousands have been under the pliars, club, blow torch, whip and rack by his own vary hands, and that's not to include what he has ordered at the hands of others. It would be like Hitler complaining about the quality of food in a prison camp.

Lets not lend more credibility and pity toward Herr Saddam than he truly deserves.

 

[Flying Crane]

But when you have democrats and republicans who should be democrats (ex. John McCain) crying about torture and how bad we are treating the Iraqis, Saddam would be stupid not to attempt to use it in his own defense.

John McCain was tortured when he served in Vietnam. He knows the reality of what torture is like far far better than you or I. I'll let you have that discussion with him directly.

I stand by my earlier comments: we should never use torture. It is bad policy. Nobody pretends that Mr. Hussein is not a bad person who did horrible things for many years to many people. That is not in dispute. But we should never resort to torture, even on people like him. As much as it has appeal to our primal sense of justice, it is bad policy, plain and simple.

 

[sgtmac_46]

John McCain was tortured when he served in Vietnam. He knows the reality of what torture is like far far better than you or I. I'll let you have that discussion with him directly.

I stand by my earlier comments: we should never use torture. It is bad policy. Nobody pretends that Mr. Hussein is not a bad person who did horrible things for many years to many people. That is not in dispute. But we should never resort to torture, even on people like him. As much as it has appeal to our primal sense of justice, it is bad policy, plain and simple.

Nor should we assume that, when a man like Saddam claims something, it is true. Again, only a fool would take a man like Saddam's word as truth.

 

[Flying Crane]

Nor should we assume that, when a man like Saddam claims something, it is true. Again, only a fool would take a man like Saddam's word as truth.

As I said in my first posting, "if it is true"

 

[sgtmac_46]

As I said in my first posting, "if it is true"

Yes, though you're still operating under the assumption that it is true. It should be STRONGLY stated that we have only Saddam's word for any of this. The burden of proof is his, and he has far from met it. He has ZERO credibility.

You notice how quiet Saddam's sons, Uday and Qusay have been on the topic. They've made no accusations about mistreatment.

 

[Ray]

Not to worry; in the article, Saddam says "And I'm not complaining about the Americans because I can poke their eyes with my own hands."

What I want to know is: who taught him finger set?

 

[Flying Crane]

You notice how quiet Saddam's sons, Uday and Qusay have been on the topic. They've made no accusations about mistreatment.

I actually thought they were already dead.

You are right, we have only his word on this, and he has a track record of abuses that make his word suspect. It also sounds like the initiator of this thread is operating under the assumption that his claim is true.

I guess I was really looking at this thread more in terms of the use of torture in general, rather than that Saddam claims he in particular was tortured.

Everyone knows he is a terrible person and has used horrible torture methods. What should separate us from people like him, is that we do not use torture. And we don't circumvent the issue by attempting to re-define what torture is to suit our desires, or create an exception for the CIA.

One of the things that has made Saddam abhorred around the world has been his use of torture. If we use torture at all, then we really HAVE sunk to his level. How will the world remember us down the road? At what point does our own administration become guilty of the same abominations that Hussein is probably guilty of? It is far wiser to not start down that road at all, than to find ourselves in a position of needing to justify a series of ever-increasing atrocities ourselves. We like to think that we as a nation are untouchable. We are the strongest and the most wealthy, and we have been able to get away with much that I doubt other nations would have gotten away with. But I think we could find ourselves without any allies if we do not tread with some level of caution.

 

[Flying Crane]

Not to worry; in the article, Saddam says "And I'm not complaining about the Americans because I can poke their eyes with my own hands."

What I want to know is: who taught him finger set?

He must have learned it when he was an ally of the US. Ask Rumsfeld. He had business dealings with him...

 

[arnisador]

What I want to know is: who taught him finger set?

Saddam Hussein is a Kenpoist?

 

[FearlessFreep]

Didn't we invade his country because we took him at his word when he talked of weapons and plans?

 

[Flying Crane]

Didn't we invade his country because we took him at his word when he talked of weapons and plans?

I believe the official reason we invaded was because he told us that he did not have weapons of mass destruction, and we did not believe him. Still haven't found any, nor evidence that he was in a position to manufacture them.

 

[Kane]

Darn. Does anyone else feel sorry for poor old Saddam? We took away his country, and now we've beaten him up while being detained.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/21/D8EKOTGO2.html

Give me a break.

OMG, not another one!

Why would you feel sorry for Saddam? Do you feel sorry for Pol Pot? Do you feel sorry for Hitler? Would you feel sorry for someone who has killed thousands and thousands of people almost Stalin-style (but worse)?
Getting beat up is nothing compared to what he did to many innocent people.

That should answer your question .

 

[sgtmac_46]

As a side note, I love the fact that I got a positive rating and a negative (anonymous) rating on the exact same post. I must be doing something right. :rofl:

And yes....Uday and Qusay are dead...that is my point. No fuss, no muss.

 

[Cryozombie]

he claims to have the marks, if he does, let us see them.

If he does, we need to do somthing about that. If he doesnt... well...

 

[arnisador]

he claims to have the marks, if he does, let us see them.

If he does, we need to do somthing about that. If he doesnt... well...

Full agreement. We shouldn't be abusing him...but I sure ain't taking his word on it.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Full agreement. We shouldn't be abusing him...but I sure ain't taking his word on it.

Having dealt with criminals for several years, I know it's quite common to make up allegations of abuse, for the intent of impacting an impending trial. It serves the muddy the waters and, in Saddam's case, it's likely a ploy designed to garner sympathy in hopes of reaching a more amiable trial environment.

What's more, even if Saddam has marks, it's just as likely they are self-inflicted. I've known of suspects to hit each other, for the purposes of claiming the officer abused them.

 

[Cryozombie]

True, and besides, we all know you cops know how to beat a suspect without leaving a mark.