Weight training is TOTAL rubbish for Aikidoka?

[Jenna]

Hello all my Aikido peepz .... not sure how many or few of y’all there are here I think I have spoken to you all already but yes the above is a personal opinion of mine but being open to any alternative views I will ask does anyone train weights specifically as an aid to their Aikido? Or if you train weights anyway but NOT for your Aikido then how does your extra strength through muscle mass specifically affect your Aikido technique ??

I ask having been taken this evening to another dojo on invitation and I could not help but notice the amazing physique of some of their gals and guys. Well.... what can I say I am a sucker for looks, ha! and I promise even though I am small and light it is not jealousy when I say I cannot see the merit to weight training as an aid to Aikido technique.

I understand that the “perfect” defined figure is something most folk and guys particularly aspire to but personally I do not think extra muscle in particular is a good thing for the Aikidoka female OR male as I think it is detrimental to proper form causing the student to believe they can work a tech by superior strength over their opponent and I think this mindset in Aikido is B A D..

I have trained with one or two souls who had VERY little aiki sensitivity because of overdeveloped forearms upper arms delts pecs and all the rest and I think it REALLY shows when moving as nage they cannot adequately trace my movements which is the spiral to nowhere.. I think because of this.. weight training for the Aikidoka is rubbish! But this is of course not to say I am correct in my assertion nope and I would welcome any thoughts on how and why resistance or weights training IS beneficial to the Aikidoka. Thank you

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[MSUTKD]

Weight training is EXCELLENT for ALL physical activities, including Aikido.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

So Akidoka who are already strong should lie in bed for a few months until properly atrophied?

 

[Carol]

Weight training isn't rubbish Jenna my friend. In fact, it is very good for the body and particularly beneficial for women.

Fat is burned...not in the intestines, not in the stomach, in the muscle tissues. More muscle tissue burns more fat ergo less risk for middle age paunch and all kinds of good things.

Weight bearing or load bearing exercises also increase bone density....which is of paramount importance for women as we get older, given our propensity for osteoporosis and other things that make us shrink and give us bad backs and otherwise be rather uncomfortable.

Load-bearing exercises could be jogging or walking uphill, but training with weights ensure a more complete body workout.

Weight training can be a particular benefit to women, Akidoka or not. However, there is quite a bit of scariness associated with such a thing.

Many women are trapped in to thinking that weigths make us look like some muscle-bound steroid-enhanced freak. Women can pump up naturally but it takes SERIOUSLY HARD training do do so. I lift regularly and I dare anyone to tell me I look pumped up. I don't.

Muscle tissue also weighs more than fat...and unfortunately some women get obsessed with what the numbers on the scale mean...even though women that weight train often look LEANER at a higher weight. Higher weight from improved muscle tissue, leaner from improved fat burning.

Now...specifically for Akidoka...you use your muscles. We all do. To put one foot in front of the other in a walking motion requires muscles. To raise your hand over your head requires muscles. To sit upright in your chair requries muscles. You use your muscles in your techniques, you just don't rely on brute strength.

Muscles are an important part of an everyone's body...including Akidoka. Respect them, and they will return the respect when you need them.

 

[green meanie]

Weight training is EXCELLENT for ALL physical activities, including Aikido.

Agreed.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

"Stay in top physical shape—physical stamina is the root of mental toughness."

-Major Dick Winters
Easy Company, 506th PIR, 101st Airborne Div.
“The Band of Brothers”

I honestly believe that. The fitter you are the tougher (more you can take) you are.

 

[Swordlady]

What Carol just said.

Seriously...weight training is highly beneficial for anyone training in the martial arts. I shouldn't talk; it's been a while since I lifted weights on a regular basis. But even though I haven't seriously lifted in several years, my arms, legs, and back still have some tone (my abs have seriously gone to pot, though). I never got "big", even during my undergrad years, when I was lifting at least three times a week.

All this talk about weight training is making me feel guilty about putting it off. Though I've been feeling rather sore as of late from all of that ukemi...

 

[matt.m]

I power lifted while in the Marine Corps. I won 18 gold medals in greco wrestling and earned up to brown 2nd in Judo during this 5 yr time period. I will say this as truth in my honest opinion. I got way more out of pull ups than lat pull downs. I got way more out of swing throughs than back extensions. I got way more out of horse stance than deadlifts.

I hope you guys see the point I am trying to make, I have seen more people get injured from lifting than working out body weight execises. I don't care if they are power lifting or not.

I will recommend that if you are going to train with weights then get a gym membership and use the Icarian, Cybex, or whatever pin loaded machine the gym has. If you are training with load bearing then it is a good idea if you are set in a balanced track. You are much more likely to stay injury free if using a machine than if you are using free weights.

-Matt

 

[samurai69]

Hello all my Aikido peepz .... not sure how many or few of y’all there are here I think I have spoken to you all already but yes the above is a personal opinion of mine but being open to any alternative views I will ask does anyone train weights specifically as an aid to their Aikido? Or if you train weights anyway but NOT for your Aikido then how does your extra strength through muscle mass specifically affect your Aikido technique ??

I ask having been taken this evening to another dojo on invitation and I could not help but notice the amazing physique of some of their gals and guys. Well.... what can I say I am a sucker for looks, ha! and I promise even though I am small and light it is not jealousy when I say I cannot see the merit to weight training as an aid to Aikido technique.

I understand that the “perfect” defined figure is something most folk and guys particularly aspire to but personally I do not think extra muscle in particular is a good thing for the Aikidoka female OR male as I think it is detrimental to proper form causing the student to believe they can work a tech by superior strength over their opponent and I think this mindset in Aikido is B A D..

I have trained with one or two souls who had VERY little aiki sensitivity because of overdeveloped forearms upper arms delts pecs and all the rest and I think it REALLY shows when moving as nage they cannot adequately trace my movements which is the spiral to nowhere.. I think because of this.. weight training for the Aikidoka is rubbish! But this is of course not to say I am correct in my assertion nope and I would welcome any thoughts on how and why resistance or weights training IS beneficial to the Aikidoka. Thank you

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

so firstly, you say you went to another school where they had great physiques....................how was their aikido

I have practiced aikido for over 10 years and have been lifting weights a lot longer, i havent noticed any loss in sensetivity, my movement and flexibility are still better than a lot of people half my age.


:asian:

 

[MartialIntent]

Hello all my Aikido peepz .... not sure how many or few of y’all there are here I think I have spoken to you all already but yes the above is a personal opinion of mine but being open to any alternative views I will ask does anyone train weights specifically as an aid to their Aikido? Or if you train weights anyway but NOT for your Aikido then how does your extra strength through muscle mass specifically affect your Aikido technique ??

Jenna,
I agree! I think will all due respect, many of the replies you may receive might turn out to be from folk who are perhaps not longtime practicing aikidoka themselves or perhaps will turn out to be from those aikidoka who have been brainwashed along with the rest of the magazine-buying public into the questionable benefits of weight training which has only really come to the collective consciousness in recent years ie. from the early C20th onwards with the likes of Charles Atlas etc [google it]. This "perfect" physique is a modern, western contrived ideal of form over function - especially with regard to our particular art. This is more than apparent from viewing Ueshiba in his earlier days and most of his noteable students who were younger and physically fitter but not typical of todays benchpress fiends - check earlier images of Kenji Tomiki or Gozo Shioda or *any* of the old MA footages from that same early-mid C20th period - ain't no toned bods there! [and for the best comparison of all, see any of the figure works of the Italian renaissance, which simply shows that our modern muscular standard is nothing more than a fashion].

But with specific reference to the Aikidoka, yes I agree totally and from experience similar to your own it's fairly apparent that muscle mass and sensitivity as you put it, are *inversely* proportional. And although there's no reason as someone facetiously suggested that all aikidoka lie in bed awaiting muscular atrophy, likewise training for mass is an irrelevance and an extra barrier to overcome for any aikidoka interested in having this crucial sensitivity to his or her opponent's movement. Sure it's all great to develop the biggest triceps you can so you can punch not your opponent's face but right through to the back of their head, but as we know, Aikido ain't exactly about that. So fair enough, while it's probably a key thing for the big hitting destructive arts, Aikido no.

In fact, although it's proof by anecdote only, *none* of my highest ranking masters conform in any way to that perfectly defined muscularity. Some are a little overweight by accepted standards, most are older [wiser] and definitely *all* have long since dropped the notion of weight training as beneficial to their Aikido practice - and in fact as you say, it can be positively detrimental to techniques where practitioners go about *forcing* their way through rather than working on developing the correct *feel* for it.

On a more positive side of one's Aikido muscular training, the likes of yoga and pilates can be beneficial to overall muscle tone as unlike weight training they are not torturing one's muscle fibres by cyclically destroying/rebuilding them, but rather work to elongate the muscle pairs - which also gives a much more pleasant appearance to the body [imo].

Hope this helps! Well done for thinking about this - just because the majority say so, doesn't mean it's right

Sincere Respects!

 

[Hand Sword]

Hi Jenna,

To answer the question of the post-- No, it's not Total Rubbish. You could lift to strenghten up, or firm up without building up huge muscles. Also, Yes, you can keep your flexibility as well.

Natural talent alone does work fine, but added strength and speed definitely adds more to it, no matter what you are doing, Aikido or not.

It's not needed, per se, But, It definitely doesn't hurt, if done correctly.

Try the Bowflex if you don't like weights!

 

[pstarr]

I think a sensible resistance training program is excellent for overall fitness and is important for those of us over 40 and also for women since it helps improve bone density.

There's no need to strive for a championship weightlifter's physique - but some regular weight training is very, very good for you.

 

[samurai69]

As i can make out/remember from a lot of bits i have read, all the early students of O sensai trained with weights of some form or another, early pics of tohei show a solid muscular frame

 

[Ants]

Surely like everything any of us do it is to the degree that you do it. I can't imagine a Mr Universe styled weight lifter being especially good at Aikido due to lack range of movemnt but then the same could be said for an emmaciated individual who does not have the physical form to complete a throw, take down or wrist lock??.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Weight training is EXCELLENT for ALL physical activities, including Aikido.

That is right on!

Brian R. VanCise

 

[tempus]

I actually think weight training is greate thing (Since I just got certified as a personal trainer I am kind of bias). I, like everyone else focuses on doing every technique perfectly, but it does not happen. I find that when I do make a mistake the extra strength actually helps me get out of a situation. Yes, it took some time in the beginning to over come not using strength with Aikido and flow better. I do, but when things go wrong and I need to restart the momentum I can.

On the other hand, I end up being the Uke rag doll do to size and stregnth because everyone wants to practice or throw the big guy and it looks great when the Sensei is demostrating a technique.

On another note, one of the main reasons I took Aikido was because I know someday my size will go and this is an art that can be accomplished at all sizes.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Not all weight training is for gaining muscle mass, there are different approaches that help strength and or endurance. It all depends on the weight lifted and the reps done.

Although I am not am Aikido practitioner, I have spared a few and I have not seen any advantage or disadvantage to weight training or the lack thereof. It all comes down to their teacher, their training partner and how much and how correctly they train.

Weigh training if done in moderation is a good thing, TCM says it help the flow of Qi, western medicine says it helps over all health. Over doing weight training is a bad thing and as previously mentioned dangerous, TCM says it blocks the flow of Qi, western medicine deals with the pains, strains and injuries that are caused by overzealous or incorrect weight training.

 

[stickarts]

Although i have not done much with Aikido, I have noticed that weight training has helped me in other arts.Being effective is more about proper technique, experience, and mindset than it is about extra muscle, however, I without a doubt have noticed a big advantage over others when i am stronger. It can't make up for poor technique but when all other things are equal, it has helped me to be stronger than the opponent.

 

[theletch1]

Erica and I both weight train three times a week. Neither of us are lifting with the idea of power lifting or performance body building in mind. We train for lean muscle, stamina and general health (also it's an addictive endorphin high). My instructor is a big guy, lots of muscle but can tell you in the middle of a tech when uke shifts a foot out of place. I don't agree that lifting is TOTAL rubbish but I will agree that it depends on your goals in the gym that may adversely affect your ability to perform aikido to a certain extent. As with all things it's about balance.

 

[Jenna]

Thank you all for giving your careful consideration to this and while I am maybe not convinced of the usefulness of weight and resistance training IN AIKIDO I will say I am aware there is a usefulness to resistance training absolutely and agree with you who said so.. but I think this is correct only when we have specific goals to mind.. and by way of qualification I will say that resistance increases bone mass especially in women and this is a VERY good thing as hormones dissipate and leave their marks.. likewise if you are a sprinter or a cyclist or a climber or swimmer or a builder or even a pianist you will need to have your appropriate muscles trained to the most efficient level.. what good would Lance Armstrong (mmmm) have been with swimmers lats and pecs and a marathon runners legs? It is about fit for purpose and which I think we are mostly forgetful of seeking to just bulk out everything that can be bulked out...

and but I think the equation becomes imbalanced particularly for the Aikidoka when good tone .. and which is something I try to be careful to maintain in myself .. but when good tone is overtaken by muscle GREED.. are you greedy for muscle??? I think there is muscle which is natural and occurs naturally in each of us and yes I agree we should work diligently with this to MAINTAIN that mass but once we start training weights we are encouraged to INCREASE and increase again over and over and which I think is unnecessary and yes as was said it is to conform to a bodily fashion.. and you may say... well I do not do weights to conform but yes and check your hairstyle and your clothes and your tattoos and all these things are signs of conformity to fashions, no? but oooooh a big digression going on there.. *reels self in*

For an Aikidoka to be capably "toned" .. and I do not even like this word but I hope you understand what I mean by it.. but yes they shoud be toned with the natural muscle they have existing through performing techniques and that is EXACTLY appropriate..

taking that concept off its fulcrum and off to one extreme and I think we get an excess of weight (fat) and this is a hindrance and yes I also have trained with some very senior and amazing masters who are even a little um... rotund I will say .. and perhaps I am guilty of pointing out to them via whichever technique they choose that their rotundness around their midriff is maybe not so much an indication of wisdom! as they say to me but an actual detraction from their hard learned experience ... but this is not to be disrespectful and quite the opposite because I care very greatly and deeply for all my former teachers

and likewise at the other extreme off-balance I believe are those not necessarily fit.. or even fit for purpose but bulked out guys (and gals too which I am not overly a fan of) and this in my experience shows up a in VERY obvious lack of physical awareness to the subtleties vagaries and minutae of the opponents movement of which the Aikidoka MUST be aware unless they wish to start blocking parrying and countering which should not even be part of an Aikido repertoire but it becomes so once the awareness to movement flies away with the birds and suddenly we do not know from where the opponents next move is coming and all we can do is react to the actuality rather than pre-empt on the subtlety or on the hint of the their intended movement which is the Aikido way

And you will say well... -I- train weights and I am an Aikidoka and I am still very fit for my art and a great allround Aikidoka... And all I would say is ahh yes... but imagine how much BETTER you would be without the unnecessary slow-twitch muscle. Try it... I guarantee and promise that losing unnecessary bulk and returning to your original (maybe not fashionable in 2006) figure will bolster your Aikido... ahh but I know I am only knocking on closed doors maybe and this is ok I will be standing outside here waiting for you to open up and let me in whenever you are ready!

Thank you all again for taking time to formulate and offer your thoughtful opinion.. this here is my opinion only which is not to say it is any good for anything... and if it suits you to do so.. go right on ahead and shoot away at me I am tested bulletproof at closest range and certified untouchable, ha!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna