I posted a similar question over on FMA Talk, but the effects of misusing weights seem more problematic in Wing Tsun than in FMA's. What would you tell a Wing Chun/Tsun student who wanted to train with weights? Is there a right way to do it, or like my old Si-fu insisted, is it something to be avoided altogether?
Weigh in on Weight Training
- Thread starter geezer
- Start date
almost a ghost
Blue Belt
Just for clarification, do you mean weight training as in free weights or training with weights added on such as iron rings/wrist & ankle weights?
Hey guys, from what I have been told and also have read that Wing Chun benefits from working on specific muscle groups. A small example is training your triceps verse biceps, this helps build muscles that are used in even the very basics of SLT.
A question that was asked of me is “Why would you want large biceps when your biceps are not really used to extend the arm for a strike?”.
Again this is just what I have been told and seen out and about so take it for what it is worth.
Good luck!
A question that was asked of me is “Why would you want large biceps when your biceps are not really used to extend the arm for a strike?”.
Again this is just what I have been told and seen out and about so take it for what it is worth.
Good luck!
OK, here's the problem: since muscles only contract and then relax, but do not extend, it takes energy from the opposing muscle group to extend them. So, if you develop huge biceps, it would rob your punch of the energy that is required to extend the biceps. It's like driving with your parking brake on. It slows you down and wears you out. The question is can you train selectively with weights to maximize strength and minimize this "drag" effect?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Balance your weight training, work both sets of muscles.
qwksilver61
Black Belt
Personally,I would not.I like/prefer the springy flexible muscle that is developed.
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
The myth of "bulky and slow" muscles is just that...a myth.
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
Then bigger triceps would be good????
Problem with weight training is in PROPER training.
3 common mistakes
1- Transplanting weightlifting or bodybuilding program;
sprinters and marathoners both run but their training plans are not similar, you need training plan that fits your chosen activity
2- Focusing on absolute strength;
Previous coach of Cro Corp (MMA) commented on his defeat that he was in good condition for some other sport but not for MMA, you need to cover also power, speed, flexibilty, endurance, not only absolute strength
3- Strength is NOT Power;
approximate training difference
Strength training is high resistance, low repetition
Power training is medium resistance, medium repetition, HIGH speed
Movements that affect whole body are the best (deadlift, clean press) time wise.
Why would you train triceps more than biceps, I hope you don't need to defend since same logic will apply to return your hand closer to your body.
This reminded me of those guys who did 300 crunches but 0 for back muscles and were surprised that they got pain in the back. To stand vertically you need both back and abs to work in coordination.
3 common mistakes
1- Transplanting weightlifting or bodybuilding program;
sprinters and marathoners both run but their training plans are not similar, you need training plan that fits your chosen activity
2- Focusing on absolute strength;
Previous coach of Cro Corp (MMA) commented on his defeat that he was in good condition for some other sport but not for MMA, you need to cover also power, speed, flexibilty, endurance, not only absolute strength
3- Strength is NOT Power;
approximate training difference
Strength training is high resistance, low repetition
Power training is medium resistance, medium repetition, HIGH speed
Movements that affect whole body are the best (deadlift, clean press) time wise.
Why would you train triceps more than biceps, I hope you don't need to defend since same logic will apply to return your hand closer to your body.
This reminded me of those guys who did 300 crunches but 0 for back muscles and were surprised that they got pain in the back. To stand vertically you need both back and abs to work in coordination.
Selfcritical
Orange Belt
The force provided by either your triceps or biceps should be neglible unless you're doing it incorrectly; the force is imported by the hips/shoulders/falling step, and the arm should just be providing a solid structure so that the force thus generated can be conveyed to the target. This should hold true for both WC and boxing-style punches.
Yes, exactly, peoples who need their limbs to move really fast, like world class Olympic sprinters are skinny little twerps with minimum musculature to slow them down, or maybe not....
Excerpted from an interview with Asafa Powell, the current fastest man in the world.
regular weight training will not compromise your wing chun structure. To excess may keep you from relaxing into a proper structure. reflex action in the techniques comes from practice, no matter what your muscle structure may be. However, if you seriously practice wing chun you will not have time for, or need of weights other than your own, your opponent/opponents, and the mook jong.
I'd say tahuti has given the best advice and there's not really much more to add to it other than to concur on the whole body and balanced approach.
I do agree w/ Tahuti as well. I think he's brought up some relevant data w/ his reference to cro cop - while it's important for the wing chun fighter to try and maximize their striking ability, in a real fight they'll be doing more than just striking.
Sometimes it seems like wing chunners want to completely ignore the bicep.
Sometimes it seems like wing chunners want to completely ignore the bicep.
So far you guys make a good argument in favor of intelligent weight training to increase power and speed. In spite of the traditional bias against weights, I'd be inclined to agree. Does anybody care to share their favorite routines?
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
Whats your goal? Speed, power, strength, muscular endurance, size/composition? A combination? All of them but in varying percentage?
Doc_Jude
3rd Black Belt
There is a use for the bicep in Wing Chun. The straight blast isn't the end-all be-all.
I would say, do your weight training, whatever you decide on, twice a week, probably olympic lifts or whatever you decide, just for strength in general, but do your push-ups and dips really intense, plyometric style. Strong, fast extentions, clapping pushups, you know the drill. These will train you to relax on the tricep extention, regardless of how big your biceps get.
almost a ghost
Blue Belt
I go to the gym 2 - 3 times a week. My training is primarily 3-4 reps of 8-10, and once in a blue moon I'll see how much weight I can put up. This is also in addition to throwing 1000 punches a day (usually right before I hit the gym).
Has it affected my wing chun? Yes, for the better. I can chi sao much longer than I've been able to and apply more force for arm pinning and lap sao pulls.
Has it affected my wing chun? Yes, for the better. I can chi sao much longer than I've been able to and apply more force for arm pinning and lap sao pulls.
I bet all those punches do a pretty good job at stretching out and loosening up your arms to prevent any excessive bulk and the tightness that would slow you down. I'm working very cautiously with weights myself. I'm using dumbells, as they demand more balance and coordination, I'm shooting for 12 reps and alternating my weight workouts with calisthenics. For example, if I do dumbell bench presses and triceps extentions on Mon., on Wed. I will do sets of push-ups and dips. I try to balance opposing muscle groups. Add in a lot of puches and chi-sau and I think it should all balance out. So far it's working. I seem to be getting more power, speed and endurance. I guess time will tell. Comments?
