W. Hock Hochheim

[Stickboxer]

OK. Different forums, even in different areas per forum, occasionally bring up this guy. Talking about knives, best videos, greatest martial artists... whatever the subject, when someone mentions this guy, detractors come out in full force!

I'm training in multiple systems, one of which is Hock's, because his Scientific Fighting Congress delves into various areas in which I'm interested (Filipino and JKD-LIKE material). Still, I hold some apprehension because so many people say so much against him.

I want to throw out the question: what do people think about him?

For the record, I don't think I'll let myself be influenced by what even the majority of people think, because I really like the guy myself. While I haven't met him yet, I spoke to him many years ago on the phone; despite being in a hurry, he was willing to stop and answer my questions right then. He exhibited the kind of courtesy I rarely see in many teachers.

I plan on going to his seminars and will continue training under one of his local instructors, my goal to achieve rank in his system. Its good stuff, very well organized. More importantly, I've watched his videos and realized "My God, he's right," and then changed my way of thinking, despite how well-founded and logical I thought I was. Many times, I've concluded that the guy is a genius!

Your thoughts?

 

[Kempojujutsu]

I only have heard good things about Hock. That was one reason why I bought his knife series, The journeyman & Tradesman video. The only thing when we practice knife attacks and the attacker fights in a uncommited attack we seem to die almost every time. Hope the bad guys don't get this tape.

Bob Thomas:samurai: :duel:

 

[Stickboxer]

My first kickboxing teacher earned his instructorship under Inosanto but really trained with Ron Balicki. My teacher taught me everything Balicki taught, almost verbatim, and even gave me private lesson footage. Since then, I've purchased Balicki's three knife videos, which are really good and chock full of information. Blending all that, I've taught knife-passing defenses in private lessons with police officers. "When the knife comes in, use the back of your hand to take it safely past you in order to effect a disarm" was a typical lesson.

Hock teaches to forego a palasut drill and instead, grab that sucker as soon as you can. Makes sense to me.

Likewise, I've done plenty of chi sao and hubud and the like, at times looking away or even blindfolded so as to really develop the sensitivity. While he admits there may be some value in closing your eyes once a while when doing such energy drills, Hock says "For crying out loud, LOOK at the bastard who's trying
By the way, to kill you!" My God, he's right! I can imagine clashing with a knife-wielding mugger, and I engage arms then, out of habit developed in class, look away... that'd be just stupid of me.

One of the things that attracts people to Hock, as it has also done to Soyak Kali and Michael Janich, is the emphasis on pure knife fighting. An avid practitioner of the Filipino styles, where on average 20% or less of the time is spent working knives, in Hock's program, 100 hours of training equates to 100 hours of working with the blade.

By the way, Kempojujutsu, you bring up a really good point. What happens when the "bad guys" find access to videos or even classes dealing with knife fighting and the like? Its now common knowledge that one of the 9-11 terrorists was well-versed in a particularly aggressive martial style...

 

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by Stickboxer

By the way, Kempojujutsu, you bring up a really good point. What happens when the "bad guys" find access to videos or even classes dealing with knife fighting and the like? Its now common knowledge that one of the 9-11 terrorists was well-versed in a particularly aggressive martial style... [/B]

That "style" most likely was Silat. It is said that some of the southern Philippines bladework has heavy influence from the migration of people from indonesia , so their bladework is somewhat similar to ours. Most likely they did train knife skills, but i doubt they learned it from one of Hock's tapes or the like, knifefighting is engrained in their culture, just as it is in the PI, they have had access far longer than the general public in the US has.

What i worry about is giving lessons to someone here in the US with wrong intentions. I always screen my students, even give them a couple overview lessons to get a feel for them, if it feels strange, i wont teach them.

 

[BIG Sean Madigan]

Hi,

I have a ton of respect for Hock. I think the man has done tons of fantastic research, and his teaching make sense, and are easily added to most curriculums.

At a seminar in New Jersey once a person asked about footwork..and Hock answered something to the effect of 'if you were able to walk into this room, then you already have the needed footwork'.

I don't give a **** what most people say about ANY martial artist...good or bad. Almost every opinon I've read about people on the net is almost totally based on 'loyality' and the almighty $$.

If you like Hock...work with him...if you don't like Hock, then don't, it's really that simple.

All the best,

BIG Sean Madigan

http://www.combativesolutions.com

 

[BRAM]

Hock is one of the few of us with Black belts from Professor Presas and Grandmaster Ernesto Presas..
and he was a Knife master under GM Ernesto Presas...
His heart still beats to th drum of Modern Arnis...
Hes been on the street as a cop both in Military and civilian life..
He's pretty straight forward...and he doesn't teach fancy complicated stuff that won't work on the street..
He's a good man and hes followed his heart to do what he feels is best..and payed for it with blood n sweat...
and we can all gleam something from that..
Hes got lots of good info...
I'm proud to say Hock is one of my friends!

Bram

OK..I forgot..the other part of the question was should you study with Hock? sure..absolutely...

 

[Rob_Broad]

All I can say is if you like what the person teaches and it makes sense to you, then continue studying with that person. I have heard more good aboutHock than I have bad.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Stickboxer
Hock teaches to forego a palasut drill and instead, grab that sucker as soon as you can. Makes sense to me.

I was watching "Real TV" today. They had knife attacks caught on tape. In almost every scenario the victim grabbed at the knife and held it away. No passing, no parry, no disarm. The one guy even started to kick the cr@p out of the assailant when the knife was grabbed.

Hock is pretty real. I was thinking to myself after seeing this, "Wow. Hock was right."

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by GouRonin

I was watching "Real TV" today. They had knife attacks caught on tape. In almost every scenario the victim grabbed at the knife and held it away. No passing, no parry, no disarm.

It's hard to beat real world info. like this. I'd love to see this--what is the show? What channel is it on?

 

[GouRonin]

Real TV is a show that shows live action stuff caught on tape. Stuff like crashes, attacks etc. It's on the new TNN tv station.

The knife stuff was very surprising. In one incident, this lady pulls a butcher knife out of her purse and attacks two store clerks. They actually grab at the knifehand and hold it. One gets a nick in the ear initially and the other a scratch on the arm. The start bashing the hand with the knife on the display case and the lady drops it. They pick it up and start to slash at her and chase her off.

In another spot this guy in thailand attacks a guard at a store with a knife and he fends off the knife with his hands until he can grab it and then he and the other clerk beat this guy half to death.

In many cases grabbing the knife arm seems to have saved their lives.

 

[arnisador]

I was attacked by a guy with a knife once. I grabbed it. It wa sa week before my Modern Arnis black belt test. It's instinct, though in my case there was more to the situation than that (I couldn't easily move to the side).

I watch shows like that when I can--most of it is car chases, but the odd real fight provides info. that's golden.

 

[Kirk]

Okay, so all agree, his slant on things are as good as they come.
What impressed me with him, is his ability to present the material.
I scoffed at the price of his seminar, yet begrudgingly paid it. He's
a damned fine instructor, and he really presents the material well.

 

[arnisador]

Do you mind saying what that price is? I would like to attend one of his seminars some time.

I have a police videos show on now (on FX) for just this type of research--they bore me to tears otherwise. A cop just slipped a wild haymaker. It's good to see what types of attacks are being used. Some people spend so much time learning how to defend against a roundhouse to the head when overwhlemingly it seems to me that what you see is a.) a right hook or overhand, possibly prefaced by a left-hand shirt grab, and b.) a clinch/tackle. One wants to put the odds in one's own favor!

 

[Rob_Broad]

I have heard his seminars are expensive, but well worth the price. It all comes to what you value.

 

[eternalwhitebelt]

He is now charging 125 dollars per two day seminar.

 

[arnisador]

That seems a very fair price, actually.

 

[eternalwhitebelt]

It is if you have never been to one of his seminars. After awhile a lot of the info is repeated and it is hard to justify spending that much money. Hoch's value is in the structure of his system and the many drills he can teach you. Once you get the jist of it, 125 dollars becomes a lot of money. He is very talented and does put on a good seminar.

 

[Kirk]

I didn't mean to imply that it's an outrageous sum .. but
compared to most kenpo seniors, it's like 3 - 4 times what they're
charging.

 

[BRAM]

A computer class would cost you more than that..a professional seminar be it Law or Medicine...a couple of nosebleed tickets to a concert by an artist to whom you already own the album would cost more than that..
Thats an OK bottle of Champagne...
Thats the cost of a production knife....( barely!)
My New Balances almost cost that!and I bet Nikes cost the same..
Its basically a single dinner @ Emerils!
Hock's price is cheap..
$125 for 2 days?
DO IT!

Same thing over and over again? Professor Presas used to tell me that way I could find the little things he did..
because I wasn't watching the big things anymore...
That my seeing the "same thing" I'd be able to ask the correct questions of him and what he was teaching-doing....

Hock spent lots of his time & money to learn it, digest it and rearrange it so others could easily learn it...
Getting it for $125@ pop is cheap...


You could spend $125 very quickly in this world..Go spend it on yourself & Hock!


Bram
PS: I guess you guys don't go to the other knife camps..cause then you'd jump @ ONLY $125...ROFL...

 

[GouRonin]

Is that per person or his fee in total?