Vigilantism in OH, is this acceptable?

[OULobo]

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/109282650775790.xml

In brief, a man was found out side a 5 yr old's apartment room window masturbating. He was discovered, forcibly raped with a branch and beaten into a coma. The five people that beat him face the death penalty if he dies.

Comments or thoughts?

 

[OULobo]

Points of discussion:
-The mother, a stripper, was at a party in a different apartment building within the complex, leaving a 5 yr old alone in the apartment.
-The whole thing was caught on the apartment's video survaillance, which the attackers tore off the wall and tried to hide. It was found in the apartment.
-The attackers were drunk and high admitting to excessive alcohol consumption and smoking pot.
-The attackers are unrepentant.
-The attackers left the man bleeding and unconcious for hours and returned to continue the beating, at this time they dicussed where to dump the body if he died.

While I can understand the viceral reaction of the attackers, the sad fact is that the reaction was both excessive and illegal. This was a minor offense and while I can't condone it, I can say that beating a man to death for it is unjustifiable. One of the people here mentioned that if it was his kid and he saw this, he would restrain him and let the police deal with it. If the guy touched his kid, he would kill him, but then expect that the law would hand him life inprisonment or the death penalty, which he would accept for his actions.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I'm going to go with a "no" on your question, OULobo. While the masturbating man's behavior is disturbing, and I probably would have wanted to go after him, "going after" someone in a situation like that would, for me, trying to restrain and report him - have the law deal with it. Would I be tempted to belt him one if I could? Maybe.

Raping and beating a man to coma? No. Would I be tempted to do that if I had found him molesting a child? Yes. Would I do it? No.

While the situation was scary and creepy, what that band of people did to that man was unjustifiable. The emotional tides of vigilantism creep me out.

 

[Baytor]

In my opinion, the force used on the guy was disproportionate to the crime. Was he a sick twist that probably needed and a$$ kicking? Yes, but there is pretty big difference in restraining the guy so the police can do their job and what they did.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Chances are, assuming the guy was held for the police and convicted, sent to jail, he would've been taken care of in similar, if not worse, fashion.

I agree with if he attacked one of my children, I'd rip his face off. No contest. But - in this case, I agree with Feisty in that the attackers were excessive in their punishment of this man. KT

 

[MisterMike]

Maybe he should have been reported, arrested for indecent exposure and what-not, and then sent to the nearest support group for people with his type of problem. After all, our jails are just too full and what these people really need is compassion, support and education, right?

OK, I'm going to throw up now...

 

[mj-hi-yah]

This is one of those things I wish I hadn't read! The whole thing makes me ill. It's a total lose lose situation! The thought of a stranger masturbating outside of someone's home is twisted, but I do wonder why the mom left her kid all alone like that. Granted, this could have happened even if she were sleeping in the same room, but his intent could have been worse. She is lucky in some way for her daughter that that was all the perpetrator did.



That being said, the punishment should fit the crime. It was excessive with what seems like an almost gang type mentality. Now the child may wind up being without her parent and that to me was extremely irresponsible of the mom. They knew what they did was wrong, because they tried to confiscate the camera and plotted to dispose of the body.

:-( The whole thing is so unfortunate!

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I wouldn't even call this vigilantism, simply a bunch of drunk psychopaths who found an excuse to take out their aggression. Reporting the guys to the cops, and even restraining him 'til they got there, would be acceptable. Beating him? Not in the least.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Maybe he should have been reported, arrested for indecent exposure and what-not, and then sent to the nearest support group for people with his type of problem. After all, our jails are just too full and what these people really need is compassion, support and education, right?

Um, no, but raping and beating a man into a coma isn't appropriate either. Although I find it disturbing and sick, he hadn't actually touched the child or caused the child harm. Unless you think that we really should cut off a man's hand for stealing....

 

[shesulsa]

There are so many things wrong that happened here.

1. The five-year-old was left alone - sleeping, yes, but still alone. That in itself is enough to have her removed from her mother's custody.

2. I assume the curtains/blinds were open - duh!

3. The child's mother admitted to use of illegal drugs and drinking - another big no-no for Mommy Dearest.

4. These stoners found a reason to beat up on someone. They all would have been better off if they had called the cops, said, '...yeah, I've been drinking and smoking pot, but this guy's a sicko." Clearly, they were more worried about their own fate.

5. What if the 5-year-old child happened to wake up from the commotion and see what happened?

6. This guy's punishment did not meet the crime.

I would have had all the same temptations as you all have mentioned, but given the country and the age we live in, this was completely inappropriate from what I can see.

 

[MartialArtist68]

There are so many things wrong that happened here.

1. The five-year-old was left alone - sleeping, yes, but still alone. That in itself is enough to have her removed from her mother's custody.

2. I assume the curtains/blinds were open - duh!

3. The child's mother admitted to use of illegal drugs and drinking - another big no-no for Mommy Dearest.

4. These stoners found a reason to beat up on someone. They all would have been better off if they had called the cops, said, '...yeah, I've been drinking and smoking pot, but this guy's a sicko." Clearly, they were more worried about their own fate.

5. What if the 5-year-old child happened to wake up from the commotion and see what happened?

6. This guy's punishment did not meet the crime.

I would have had all the same temptations as you all have mentioned, but given the country and the age we live in, this was completely inappropriate from what I can see.

I agree wholeheartedly

 

[Flatlander]

I could agree with the sentiments expressed here already, as sitting here reading someone else's story affords me the luxury of being removed from the situation, thereby allowing me a degree of moral clarity.

However, had I caught him outside MY kid's window, I cannot begin to try to imagine what my instinctual and immediate response would be. That's a tough call.

In all honesty.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

flatlander - I completely understand. If it had been the child's mother who had found the guy, and had kicked the s**t out of him, that would be another story entirely. But this was a bunch of drunks who went WAY over any kind of boundary. Who thinks, "This guy is making me so mad, I'm going to anally rape him with an object, and then beat him until he's almost dead"?

 

[Flatlander]

Oh, of course, I concur 100 percent. My agression does not manifest as anal rape.

 

[Bammx2]

sure he mighta needed a "LITTLE whoopin up on" then handed over to the police......
But in almost ANY crime,
the punishment should FIT the crime.
He didn't deserve anything that severe(that we know of).....maybe a little "hick'ry switch" action fer a bit behind the wood shed,
but definately handed over to the police after!

 

[michaeledward]

There are so many things wrong that happened here.

7. What is the 19 year old Brandon Breeden doing dating a 15 year old? Where are her parents?


Step-Parent to a 16 year old girl and 14 year old girl. - Mike

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I didn't mean to imply as much!

Oh, of course, I concur 100 percent. My agression does not manifest as anal rape.

:asian:

 

[OULobo]

flatlander - I completely understand. If it had been the child's mother who had found the guy, and had kicked the s**t out of him, that would be another story entirely. But this was a bunch of drunks who went WAY over any kind of boundary. Who thinks, "This guy is making me so mad, I'm going to anally rape him with an object, and then beat him until he's almost dead"?

If I'm not mistaken, it was the mother that found the guy initially and she had the presence of mind to go get everyone else. The mother was part of the group doing the beating. It was her and her friends.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

One wonders if this group of losers doing the beating were simply looking for justification of such violence.

Apparently, as voyeurism goes, its a treatable paraphilia. If left untreated, some studies indicate that upwards of 20% of voyeurs go on to commit other sexually oriented crimes:

http://www.brainphysics.com/ocd/research/voyeur99.pdf

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1233/voyeurism.html

http://www.realage.com/research_lib...://Utility2/crsfiles/bha/bha_voyeuris_bha.htm


Remember that correlation doesn't equal causation. James Brudos, a serial killer, was a voyeur. I find it unlikely that treatment would have been effective in preventing him from killing. Voyeurism is just one of many steps that serial killers take towards their first act of murder. This reminds me of the "marijuana as a gateway drug" argument. Does dope cause heroin addiction? Or does an addict in the making go through a number of drugs on the way of finding a narcotic of choice?

Pedophilia has a ridiculously high recividism rate. Had this peeper been treated, he might never have "peeped" again. He might never have harmed a child by physically molesting them...yet his impulses and desires could well have remained. On the other hand, this guy might have been a serial rapist who harmed children on a regular basis. We'll likely never know.



Regards,


Steve

 

[OULobo]

I understand the points you bring up and I know you are just throwing out facts, but we don't punish people on "ifs". You need to commit a crime or attempt to commit a crime before you can be punished for that crime, and the punishment should fit the crime. This guy commited no crime that deserved a near fatal beating or rape, and the fact is he didn't commit any other crime.