Unreality Based Self Defense

[Phil Elmore]

Unreality Based Self Defense

These systems have many more adherents than you might expect. We talk to them every day.

 

[Cryozombie]

Phil,

Another great article, as always, but I have a few questions...

Well... one mainly springs to mind...

Do you think its unrealistic to train with your hands at your sides, standing naturally?

I wont argue that rasing your hands in a defensive gesture, or even an agressive one is bad if you are confronted...

But is it bad to train as if you were unaware the attack is coming?

 

[Phil Elmore]

Not at all. You won't always have the chance and you won't always know, so you should train for every scenario you can imagine. I used that exampline in this particular article because the person to whom I was speaking specifically advocated (as a conscious choice) keeping your hands at your sides, rather than bringing your hands up, even when you knew there was some kind of problem (potentially) brewing.

 

[theletch1]

I see training with hands at sides vs up (whether in a defensive "hey, you're a little too close" or an aggresive "you've just been elected for the butt whoopin' you were campaigning for position) as a "reaction time", situational awareness drill. There is no way of picking up on every potential threat as some are quite simply more obvious than others. Training with hands at sides is a great method for a scenario in which someone attempts to sucker punch you at a bar/alley where ever just because you happen to be there. Hands up drill is better suited for threats that you've had a bit more time to assess...antagonist has given you a reason to believe that there will be a confrontation through either verbal or body language cues. Both ways of training are good ideas in my mind. I train in both myself as well as front several different starting positions with my hands to try out different angles of defense/attack.

I think the premise that Phil is going for here (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) is that you can never be aware of all possible threats in any given arena so anyone who is unfamiliar to you should be given at least a modicum of review as a potentially hostile individual. I know that others here have seen Phil's views as somewhat paranoid or that he has a very sad view of the people in our society but I'd disagree with them. Paranoia is a degree type thing for me. It isn't paranoid, IMHO, to review every new person you meet as a potential threat, it is only logical as a first line of defense. Paranoid would be refusing to have any interaction with other people because they may be a threat. Most people can be assessed fairly quickly and the routine of interaction can be gotten on with. It's not anti-social. It's simply a way of putting yourself a bit more at ease with your fellow human animals.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
Not at all. You won't always have the chance and you won't always know, so you should train for every scenario you can imagine. I used that exampline in this particular article because the person to whom I was speaking specifically advocated (as a conscious choice) keeping your hands at your sides, rather than bringing your hands up, even when you knew there was some kind of problem (potentially) brewing.

"Back in the day," techniques lines were run with the student facing his attacker in a meditaion horse. The theory being because it was such a vulnerable position, that if you could defend yourself from there, anything else would be comparatively easy.

Good artcle.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I agree with Doc. Train for the cold-****. Train to block a punch starting with your hands down.

And, I agree with Sharp Phil. If an antogonist is getting inside your personal space, then putting your hands up is a very smart thing to do. But, I think the "fence" position looks too Karate-kid. A more neutral position is the "prayer" position with the hands up, palms lightly touching each other. You can easily move from the prayer position to a "stop" or "finger point" while maintainin a non-aggressive body position.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
I agree with Doc. Train for the cold-****. Train to block a punch starting with your hands down.

And, I agree with Sharp Phil. If an antogonist is getting inside your personal space, then putting your hands up is a very smart thing to do. But, I think the "fence" position looks too Karate-kid. A more neutral position is the "prayer" position with the hands up, palms lightly touching each other. You can easily move from the prayer position to a "stop" or "finger point" while maintainin a non-aggressive body position.

Exactly what the Old Man said and did. Non-aggressive but "ready."

 

[Karazenpo]

I been in law enforcement for almost three decades now and I wholeheartedly agree with Doc and Old Fat Kenpoka. It's nice to have you hands up and ready and be prepared but you're not always going to be in that mode 24/7, no one can. So you also train for the unexpected attacks and the natural positions you may find yourself in. In other words the core philosophy of police training: 'Expect the Unexpected' and you can't go wrong!

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Karazenpo
I been in law enforcement for almost three decades now and I wholeheartedly agree with Doc and Old Fat Kenpoka. It's nice to have you hands up and ready and be prepared but you're not always going to be in that mode 24/7, no one can. So you also train for the unexpected attacks and the natural positions you may find yourself in. In other words the core philosophy of police training: 'Expect the Unexpected' and you can't go wrong!

You didn't have to go there Joe. My FIRST trip to my FIRST academy was in 1970. I guess that makes me "old school" as well. These guys who talk about always being ready, or "anticipating" every assault need a big box of "reality check" (with nuts). As an officially government certified "Urban Ninja" I've seen alot, but its still different everytime. One of my buds has about the same time with L.A.P.D. S.I.S., and all the oldtimers say the same thing, "You never no what to expect."

I gotta go, my back hurts.:asian: