Training Swords

[Bob Hubbard]

Where is a good place to buy inexpensive, but reasonable quality training swords? (IE- butter knife edges, no sharpies)

I'm tired of using my dremil on the one I got....

Danke!
:asian:

 

[Cthulhu]

First...

Define 'inexpensive'

Unfortunately, quality and inexpensive often don't go together.

Cthulhu

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Sword I just ground down I paid about $60 for.

Would prefer a steel blade, nothing fancy, dull edge, good balance.

I've seen el-cheepos for $15, but they seem to warp majorly when whacked against something....

and another point....why is it that the $200 ones come dull, but the cheep ones come sharp? >_<

 

[Inigo Montoya]

No clue dude. I got same problem. Its almost funny, as I read somewhere that when they really did fight with swords, the iron/steel was so poor, that they would often stop in the middle of battle to straighten their blades out. Our el-cheepies would be like high-tech to them.

Seriously, I'm looking forboth good quality "collector" type stuff, and low cost, "training" blades too. 440 Stainless, butter knife edge (no sharps), etc.

post em or PM em.

thanks
:asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ok, after a long a fruitless search, I struck possible paydirt. Will post info shortly, once I verify quality, etc.

 

[Graham674]

Inigo, I'm pretty sure the bit about straightening swords was Julius Caesar talking about the Gauls in his 'Conquest of Gaul'. Possibly a bit of propoganda there.

JG

 

[TLH3rdDan]

what kind of swords are you looking for? Japanese? Chinese? European? that will help you narrow your search down... i know if you look in Martial Arts Mart they have some great wushu and combat steel blades that are pretty inexpensive and they come dull. as far as katana's i have not seen any that come dull that are cheap or expensive unless you buy aluminum which will hold up to some contact but not a lot. as far as swords bending in the old days that was pretty much limited to bronze swords and swords that were made before tempering was discovered. as far as our 440 mass produced poured into a mold swords that are not tempered and would not withstand one strike from a edo era katana... i dont think they would consider them to be high tech. hope the info helps

 

[islandtime]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Where is a good place to buy inexpensive, but reasonable quality training swords? (IE- butter knife edges, no sharpies)

................
What kind of training??Iai??

Gene GAbel

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Iaido for one, but other sword arts as well. A training chinese style sword would also be usefull I think.

 

[islandtime]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Iaido for one, but other sword arts as well. A training chinese style sword would also be usefull I think.

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Man,,,,You are confusing me there. I just can't fathom the problems in training in more than one sword art at a time.

If you are in a Chinese art now or starting one and wish to learn sword forms stick with that
OR
If Iai is going to be your primary inerest you WILL spend all your time studying it. I am not kidding you. There is a lot to learn.
Iai is a whole different ball of wax from Chinese sword forms.
It is its own martial art.

I think you have to make a decistion of which you want the most. If you haven't, go to more classes and watch to decide what you want and what would be best for you. Remember there are lots of styles of Iai and one would suit you more than another.

If I have misread your post please give some more of your ideas and I will advise where I can

Gene Gabel

 

[Bob Hubbard]

For me personally, I'm interested in Iaido and/or Kenjitsu. I'm also interested in Tai-Chi sword froms, and have been (slowly) learning Fillipino sword work.

My original question was aimed more generally in focus, to try and help more folks than just me.

Sadly, there are no Iaido schools near me, so I'm forced to study from a book as time permits.

thank you:asian:

 

[islandtime]

[Sadly, there are no Iaido schools near me, so I'm forced to study from a book as time permits.

thank you:asian: [/B][/QUOTE]

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Alright, now we are getting somewhere.
Contact all the Aikido schools in driving distance of your home..
Lots will have some Iai or can put you in the right direction. If that fails try some of the Kendo search engines

As everyone states ,and I don't want to beat a dead horse but dont try to learn Iai from a book. Can you say dangerous? Even with a Iaito sword and no Sensei.

When you do find a Sensei you will have lots of bad habits to correct and will miss the fun parts of training too.Not to mention the knowledge that only a Sensei can impart to the student. You need the waza to understand the movements you are doing (bunkai)

There are lots of people on all the sword forums that could help you find an instructor.. Try e-budo.com and theswordforum.com

The people in the JSA are very knowledgeable and helpfull.Some of these people drive a couple of hours once or twice a month for training in another city.
Iai is something you can do for the rest of your life and required a big committment.

Hope this helps

Gene Gabel

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Sadly, there are no Iaido schools near me, so I'm forced to study from a book as time permits.

What book are you using Kaith? I just picked up Japanese Swordsmanship by Warner and Draeger and it's quite good--very detailed presentation of seitai iaido but much much more. (I am not certain that the URL is correct as the physical book I have lists Donn Draeger as a co-author.) An interesting book for history (not technique) is The Samurai Sourcebook by Turnbull.

I have heard the books by Michael Finn crticized. I do have a few. I too would very much like to start studying iaido again--I loved it.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I've been working through the following:

IAI - The art of Drawing the Sword - Darrell Craig ISBN:0-8048-7023-3
Flashing Steel - Masayuki Shimabukuro ISBN:1-883319-18-8
The Art of Japanese Swordsmanship - Nicklaus Suino ISBN:0-8348-0300-3
Complete Kendo - John Donohue ISBN:0-8048-3148-3

Of them all, Flashing Steel seems to be the best. Unfortunately, without someone competent to correct my mistakes, I'm afraid I'm missing crucial parts of the techniques.

Lately, I've been working single-sinwallis with a short sword, rather than a stick.... seems to help me focus a bit, but still... it's not a katana.

 

[Battousai]

As for good swords, try
www.kriscutlery.com

They have Chinese and Japanese swords. From an Iai point of view, the sword I got from them is 10 times better then stainless steel swords. It makes those swords look like toys)
My sword costs 170 dollars, and I doubt I could find one I liked better for less than a thousand. It is a hand made alloy of high carbon steel and chromium (spring steel). This metal is annoying, in that oils from your skin can corrode it if it's not cleaned after every use. I've tryed Mineral Oil cleaning, but right now it seems like WD40 works better as long as its cleaned after every use.
As far as I know everything they sell comes sharpened, which is really cool in my opinion. Once students know enough to be cautious and not cut their fingers off, sharp swords make sure that you make few mistakes and learn from the ones that you do. I've cut myself with this sword from Kris Cutlery, the sword was sharp enough that it didn't hurt as much as a cut from my stainless steel sword) Thats just my opinion about training all the time with sharp blades (except when doing sword work with others, circle wars, where you could cut your partener).
The saya for the japanese swords are made of nice wood. They are really light, so hitting people with them as a blunt weapon isn't as much of an option with these sheaths. The sword itself is heavier then stainless steel swords, which helps out alot with Iai training. After doing draws with this sword, and strengthing your wrist, going back to the stainless steel is like practising with a bokken.
I would totally recommend their Japanese line, as for their other weapons I havn't tryed any, but the katana I have is excellent.

 

[tonbo]

If you don't mind spending a couple hundred bucks, and want a custom-made weapon, try www.swordstore.com (www.nosyuiaido.com). I got one from them that is truly a wonder to work with--balanced for me, and fits to my hand. Also has the menuki, saya, and all the furniture customized. Cost me about $650, three years ago.

They also have "entry level" swords that are less customized, but are well made.

There are a couple of places out there that will sell decent iaito for about $200-$350, depending on what you are looking for. I would actually recommend spending the money, if you can, to get one made to your specs. It will help your training quite a bit when you are not "fighting" your weapon......remember, it is your *partner*...

You can also look into some of the local pawnshops, oddly enough, or even the gun shows sometimes. From time to time, people are selling old WWII era blades, and those might be worth your time.

If all else fails, your local cutlery store might have some of the replica blades. These are really blade heavy, and have no "soul", but if you have nothing else, they might do. However, for the price you're going to pay for one, you could do better. Use them as a last resort.

Hey, if all else fails, drop me a line.....I have a few links I can post for you, but I have to get 'em from home...

Peace--

 

[tonbo]

....and I second the motion that you check out Kris Cutlery. They have some darn fine looking weapons that aren't traditional Japanese, but are mighty fine blades for the price.

Peace--

 

[islandtime]

Originally posted by Battousai

As for good swords, try
www.kriscutlery.com

This metal is annoying, in that oils from your skin can corrode it if it's not cleaned after every use. I've tryed Mineral Oil cleaning, but right now it seems like WD40 works better as long as its cleaned after every use.
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Try this for the katana.. Polish it up good first with something like simichrome and then use "breakfree" brand gun cleaner for regular maint. It is a teflon based lube and it works fine in keeping off the crud


Gene Gabel :asian: