Top Mexican Drug Lord Captured

[MA-Caver]

Well one down, how many more dozens to go?

– Tue Jun 21, 6:12 pm ET MEXICO CITY (AFP) – Mexican police have captured the top boss of the notorious La Familia drug cartel in a raid on the central town of Aguascalientes, a government spokesman said Tuesday.
"The federal government has detained the top leader (of La Familia) Jose de Jesus Mendez," said security spokesman Alejandro Poire.
"This detention has destroyed the remaining command structure," he said, adding no shots had been fired in the raid that led to Mendez's capture.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110621/ts_afp/mexicocrimedrugscartel_20110621221253

For this I'm glad they had a successful raid and that no shots were fired. Basically means that the drug lord and his cronies were caught unaware and with their guard down.

Major achievement but not for long as surely another will rise up to take his place. And another after them and so on and the violence continues. How many more innocents will die in the ensuing drug war between cartels and LEA's ?

I say we should do to Columbia what we just did to Pakistan only more decisive. We know where the homes (via satellite and intel) of these drug lords are. Surgical missile strikes with Tomahawks and/or laser guided smart bombs and take the guys out when they're resting at home.
If the Columbian government protests we protest back at their corruption and lack of effort to arrest these kingpins. Cut off the head of the snake it can't bite you. Capturing it alive isn't true justice for these drug-lords. With all the death they've created from their wares.

 

[OKenpo942]

True about someone taking their place, but probably not as strong as the old one. Not going to do much on the war on drugs, but any battle won for the good guys helps. It is good for morale and for the citizens to see that there is hope and that their government still cares.

James

 

[sgtmac_46]

True about someone taking their place, but probably not as strong as the old one. Not going to do much on the war on drugs, but any battle won for the good guys helps. It is good for morale and for the citizens to see that there is hope and that their government still cares.

James

Actually what it will do is create a great deal of violence as factions fight over the scraps.......won't do anything for the flow of drugs.

A symbolic victory, at best.

And here's why........we try to use the mentality of a 'War' to describe our 'War on Drugs', but it's more like fighting a disease.........we tend to take the mistaken view that the Drug Lords and the Drug Dealers are the problem...........but they are not, they are a merely a symptom, which is why eliminating them will not solve the problem, because more will take their place.......the problem is our national addiction to illegal drugs and the resulting vast illegal profits to be made off feeding that addiction........and because we are talking about billions upon billions, there is a never ending supply of Drug Lords and Drug Dealers..........you can kill or capture 100,000, and 200,000 will take their place.

So, we have a choice........do something about the hunger for drugs OR their illegal nature......ending either would nearly instantly destroy the illegal market.......which is achievable?

 

[MA-Caver]

Actually what it will do is create a great deal of violence as factions fight over the scraps.......won't do anything for the flow of drugs.

A symbolic victory, at best.

And here's why........we try to use the mentality of a 'War' to describe our 'War on Drugs', but it's more like fighting a disease.........we tend to take the mistaken view that the Drug Lords and the Drug Dealers are the problem...........but they are not, they are a merely a symptom, which is why eliminating them will not solve the problem, because more will take their place.......the problem is our national addiction to illegal drugs and the resulting vast illegal profits to be made off feeding that addiction........and because we are talking about billions upon billions, there is a never ending supply of Drug Lords and Drug Dealers..........you can kill or capture 100,000, and 200,000 will take their place.

So, we have a choice........do something about the hunger for drugs OR their illegal nature......ending either would nearly instantly destroy the illegal market.......which is achievable?

Well capturing/killing the drug lords won't do anything except make happy faces. Destroying the crops where-ever found on a large scale (we got all that crap left-over from Vietnam -- sitting in Tooele Utah) that can be used to defoliant an area known to grow the crap.
As far as the addiction? It's set in stone... you want to cut off the demand then you gotta make it where people don't WANT it... eliminate poverty which causes a majority of the people to use drugs (and alcohol) to forget about the misery. Tighter border patrols with a shoot to kill order on smugglers. Make the job so hazardous that nobody will even want the money that comes with the risk.

 

[geezer]

Make the job so hazardous that nobody will even want the money that comes with the risk.

Not a realistic solution. Take a look at what goes on in Ciudad Jaurez or down in Cuiliacan. Maybe listen to a few Narco-corridos (personally I favor the "classics" by Chalino Sanchez). The number-one career aspiration for poor young men in some of these areas is to become a sicario or hit-man for the cartels... even though they know it will mean that they will probably get killed within a couple of years... and maybe their families too. Not much a civilized legal system can do that's more of a deterrent than that. I'm with Sarge on this one.

 

[MA-Caver]

Not a realistic solution. Take a look at what goes on in Ciudad Jaurez or down in Cuiliacan. Maybe listen to a few Narco-corridos (personally I favor the "classics" by Chalino Sanchez). The number-one career aspiration for poor young men in some of these areas is to become a sicario or hit-man for the cartels... even though they know it will mean that they will probably get killed within a couple of years... and maybe their families too. Not much a civilized legal system can do that's more of a deterrent than that. I'm with Sarge on this one.

Well true but I was talking about just the smugglers... not hit-men.

But again the daunting task of eliminating drug addiction? Be my guest and have at it. Only way you going to stop it is stop the supply from getting to the demand.
Otherwise they're going to just keep on keeping on and find something else to get high off of.

 

[oftheherd1]

Multi-faceted problem with no easy answers. A change needs to be made in the moral values that accept getting high as cool. Poverty alone isn't the problem, as many well to do want to be high. It's cool, and feels good, so why not? Parents who grew up on MJ and LSD may not see the new drugs as so bad. Of course, cocaine is more physically addictive, but hey, its cool.

Until then, how about we lock up all the addicts? But for how long? When they get out they will still want to get high. So lock up all the pushers? Those higher up the chain will give away some amounts to get people hooked so they will sell for the money to feed their own habit. Seems like right now, those who aren't taught early on that drugs are bad, and not cool, form an endless supply of drug users.

That accepted, naturally there will be those who wish to supply that need, at a profit. Granted they and their business needs to be supressed as well. But how? Many Latin governments have a reputation for being suceptable to bribery. That includes many police. Then there is the apparent fact that police who don't accept the money will be forced to accept a bullet.

That may be a justification for greater violence against identified heads of cartels, and their workers. But a what level do you start, and how many are you willing to kill?

Obviously I don't have the answers. I wish I did. Many as I stated the problem is multi-faceted, the solution must be too, and some of the comments above have merit. I don't know.

 

[MA-Caver]

That may be a justification for greater violence against identified heads of cartels, and their workers. But a what level do you start, and how many are you willing to kill?

How many are they willing to kill? How many HAVE they already killed? How many have died as a result of their successful operations? How many more will be killed before enough is enough?
They're a criminal organization that are like Terminators "can't be reasoned with, can't be bargained with, it doesn't feel remorse or pity...and absolutely will not stop, until you are dead" -- or at least addicted and dependent and paying.
These are people who came from their own version of the slums and worked their way up to immense wealth via blood, betrayal, lies and just plain being vicious. They flaunt their wealth and power to the poor (sometimes even being charitable to be the "good guy") and the poor youth look up to them and say..." that's the way to do it!" and end up joining their organization. Why not, be a government worker and/or soldier and probably end up getting hacked to pieces? Family too?

Are we so worried about looking bad for bombing and viciously eradicating the drug trade on their home turf?

 

[oftheherd1]

...
-- or at least addicted and dependent and paying.
...

Are we going to kill those too?

And please don't get me wrong. I am against drug use and abuse. I want it stopped. But I think there are no easy solutions. There is no question the cartel bosses and many of their underlings are vicious to the core. There is no question there is no length they will not go to in order to keep the drugs and resulting money flowing.

Take out the head of a cartel and there will be a quick replacement. Keep taking them out and the cartels will fragment, at least in the short term. But they won't stop doing business. Reduce the flow of drugs and all that will happen is that the street price will go up. For some that will stop their use for a while. For others, they will just get more desperate and increase their crime sprees. How many times do you want you home broken into? Even if you assume you have the means to prevent that, do all members of your family, and your close friends as well?

I want all the drug sales and resulting violence stopped as much as anyone I think. But as long as there is a big demand, there will be a big problem.

 

[MA-Caver]

Are we going to kill those too?

And please don't get me wrong. I am against drug use and abuse. I want it stopped. But I think there are no easy solutions. There is no question the cartel bosses and many of their underlings are vicious to the core. There is no question there is no length they will not go to in order to keep the drugs and resulting money flowing.

Take out the head of a cartel and there will be a quick replacement. Keep taking them out and the cartels will fragment, at least in the short term. But they won't stop doing business. Reduce the flow of drugs and all that will happen is that the street price will go up. For some that will stop their use for a while. For others, they will just get more desperate and increase their crime sprees. How many times do you want you home broken into? Even if you assume you have the means to prevent that, do all members of your family, and your close friends as well?

I want all the drug sales and resulting violence stopped as much as anyone I think. But as long as there is a big demand, there will be a big problem.

Yes true... for the South Americans aren't the ONLY countries that are importing illicit drugs. So the demand is going to be there unless we can reduce or eliminate it. But destroying major supply lines is one of the strategies used in a war.
They're calling it a war so lets treat it like one. Destroy the supply lines and manufacturing and resources and it seriously damages them. Also while smaller newbies would be struggling to get even a toe-hold in the businesses... go after them so they cannot expand and beef up anti-smuggling patrols. The Coast Guard can only do so much with so much resources. Yet they are the front-line... they spot and help detain smugglers for the DEA but still not ALL of them.
Smugglers are now using semi-submersibles to get their product through... surely the Navy can loan the coast guard a small attack sub to patrol and sink those ships and the crew with it... making it just as hazardous.
Trucks coming into this country and other smuggling methods can be dealt with harshly and severely. We keep deporting mules back and they go to Mexican jails but eventually get back out and do it again.
As for the addicted... more comprehensive treatments. Yet they are doing it on a voluntary basis or court-ordered... these treatments need to be for the long term also incentives not to use again (positive incentives okay, not just the threat of going to jail).
Creating meaningful jobs that help lift them out of whatever miserable circumstances that are influencing the drug use.
As for the well to do addicts ... (they don't last very long anyway...end up being broke the longer their addictions go on) they should have their (health) insurance companies pay for it... but there is no compulsion to go for treatment because they're in denial... the b.s. "I can handle it" phase. Yet cutting off their supply cuts off their ability to feed the addiction and thus realizing they DO have a problem.
Prices will go up... yeah but not for long because the supplies will run out faster. The increase of drug related crimes will go up yeah... it's a consequence of NOT being more aggressive with the suppliers. Fighting an international war on the home-front only isn't going to do it. Take the fight to THEM and it will be over quicker. Otherwise it's just a game of who can outsmart the other next?
This war on drugs isn't a goddamned game. People's lives are at stake and thus it needs to be cracked down and hard. Remember the carnage caused by prohibition. Either legalize the stuff or get ready for a long and dirty fight.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Well capturing/killing the drug lords won't do anything except make happy faces. Destroying the crops where-ever found on a large scale (we got all that crap left-over from Vietnam -- sitting in Tooele Utah) that can be used to defoliant an area known to grow the crap.
As far as the addiction? It's set in stone... you want to cut off the demand then you gotta make it where people don't WANT it... eliminate poverty which causes a majority of the people to use drugs (and alcohol) to forget about the misery. Tighter border patrols with a shoot to kill order on smugglers. Make the job so hazardous that nobody will even want the money that comes with the risk.

Actually it's american wealth and prosperity that fuels drug trafficking, the poverty is what causes people to SELL drugs.

As for tighter borders and shooting smugglers, we can't keep drugs out federal prisons.....how are we going to protect thousands of miles of borders when we can't protect prison walls?

Finally, here's the reality check......the ONLY way of stopping people from getting drugs is to create a Totalitarian Society dedicated to stopping it, under constant surveillance and with few civil liberties.......is it worth that to you in order to keep some idiot from getting high? That's the real choice.

 

[sgtmac_46]

How many are they willing to kill? How many HAVE they already killed? How many have died as a result of their successful operations? How many more will be killed before enough is enough?
They're a criminal organization that are like Terminators "can't be reasoned with, can't be bargained with, it doesn't feel remorse or pity...and absolutely will not stop, until you are dead" -- or at least addicted and dependent and paying.
These are people who came from their own version of the slums and worked their way up to immense wealth via blood, betrayal, lies and just plain being vicious. They flaunt their wealth and power to the poor (sometimes even being charitable to be the "good guy") and the poor youth look up to them and say..." that's the way to do it!" and end up joining their organization. Why not, be a government worker and/or soldier and probably end up getting hacked to pieces? Family too?

Are we so worried about looking bad for bombing and viciously eradicating the drug trade on their home turf?

The problem is the massive profits of the illegal drug trade.......so long as there are billions and billions to be made, you'll never stop the thugs from making it no matter what 'war-like activity' you do..

Much like prohibition, it's the illegal nature of the business that is a far worse disease than the actual drugs themselves.

 

[Cryozombie]

Actually it's american wealth and prosperity that fuels drug trafficking, .

Oh well, good news there... since we are broke as **** as a nation that should dry up.

Heh. I wanna laugh, but it's just a sad, sad state of affairs.