The problem with Nikyo and Kote Gaeshi

Chrisoro

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Found this little blog post on the AikidoJournal site on the potential problems of using techniques like nikyu and kote gaeshi against opponents high on drugs or full of adrenalin. Many valid points for any art that emphasizes these techniques, but especially the sister arts of Hapkido and Aikido, since we spend so much time perfecting these. Something to think about, when building your self defense game plan.

Phil Davison said:
What I think will happen if you use Nikyo in a contemporary self-defence situation is that your enemy will simply stand there, and possibly hit you with their free hand. If you are skilled in applying the technique, you may well tear the ligaments holding their wrist together, and at this point the lock will not work at all, since their wrist has a new-found flexibility. They are unlikely to hit you with that hand for the next few months, but remember that they are now probably running on adrenaline, and have three other limbs to attack with. If you are not skilled in applying the technique, it just wont work at all, and you may be in a worse position than you were before, because your opponent is now really angry.

With Kote Gaeshi its a very similar situation. Unless you have completely unbalanced your opponent in the entry to the technique I dont think it is likely to work at all. If your opponent has six months of kickboxing or some similar rough-and-tumble style behind them they may well not give their balance away so easily.

If you are highly skilled, and you do get Kote Gaeshi to work as a throw, you are likely to cause serious injury to your opponent since they may not be skilled in falling, and they will not be landing on mats. Think about this for a moment: if you are defending your family against a lunatic this might be appropriate but if your opponent is a drunk brother-in-law who you need to restrain, or if you are a security guard, or a psych nurse well, this should not be your technique of choice.

I think many people underestimate how much skill is required to get either Nikyo or Kote Gaeshi to work in a real combat situation. Both of these techniques require very precise application if the angle is slightly wrong the technique will not work at all. If the entry to the technique is not impeccable you will never arrive at that precise alignment. If your mind is not calm you will never achieve the correct entry. I think it would require at least ten years training to get to a point where the techniques are burned in to the point that they are viable in the heat of the moment.
 

Paul_D

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The writer has made key errors unfortunately.

Firstly joint locks are not supposed to be done in isolation, they are intended to be used if the situation presents itself following atemi (hence the saying, Aikido is 90% atemi).

So although he is correct in saying the opponent will hit you with their free hand, he has not taken into account that you should have already hit them first.

If he thinks that joint locks or throws are designed to be used on their own with no proceeding atemi then he displays a fundamental lack of understanding of both contemporary self defence and martial arts.

Secondly, since when has kote gaeshi been a throw? Uke throws themself in the dojo to prevent injury yes (well in aikido anyway, the rest of us just do a basic breakfall) but that doesn't mean the purpose of the technique is to throw the opponent. Again he shows his lack of understanding.

Atemi has been removed completely, or reduced, so that throws and locks can be practused in isolation but they can never be divorced entirely from atemi if they are to remain practical.

To paraphrase an aikido instructor whose courses I attend regularly, every technique has three opportunities for atemi in it, you don't have to practice them but you do have to know they are there. Iain Abernethy has a great saying too 'the blow before the throw'.
 

drop bear

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Yeah it doesn't really throw people. Just bends them a bit. Took me years to work that one out because it worked in the gym.

Then I would take it out, try it on a drunk and be hanging off them and they wouldn't go over.

It does work well as a disarm though.
 

Danny T

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Yeah it doesn't really throw people. Just bends them a bit. Took me years to work that one out because it worked in the gym.

Then I would take it out, try it on a drunk and be hanging off them and they wouldn't go over.

It does work well as a disarm though.
And for pain compliance against one who doesn't really want to fight.
Also great for setting up and flowing into other controls.
 

JP3

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Rather than extending the kotegaeshi "out" have you guys tried putting the inverted wrist structure "into" uke's body? I got that about 20 years ago from a hapkido instructor who was talking about this very topic. Think of it this way, typically one may take the kotegaeshi out, away from uke, trying to effect a throw (as the bearly one indicates, works great to bend people but they rarely fall, jmuch less fly. But, "bend," sure. That bending presents opportunities for atemi which should be obvious, but I digress.

Take the inverted wrist and rather than taking out and away, push it into uke's center and just watch them curl up around it. It is a neat effect and one that is not intuitive.
 

drop bear

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The bend in probably works better. I am not a fan of the position so I have not wracked that version on a guy.
 
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