The Death of a Contender

[hardheadjarhead]

A boxer goes to Iraq...

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002304.html



Regards,



Steve

 

[OUMoose]

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[Lisa]

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[shesulsa]

:waah:... dammit ...

 

[Tgace]

I note this is in the Study instead of the Hall of Remembrance. Do I just post a

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or address the politics stuffed into that little "Memorial"?? Like the little "stop loss=draft" thing.

 

[Flatlander]

I note this is in the Study instead of the Hall of Remembrance. Do I just post a

.

or address the politics stuffed into that little "Memorial"?? Like the little "stop loss=draft" thing.

If its in here, its for discussion.

 

[Tgace]

Iraq units are typically deployed 12-18 months. Stop loss isnt being used as a "were keeping you till the war on terror is over" type thing. Its being used to keep units filled with soldiers so it can be deployed. Military units have a system of grading based on manpower, training, equipment etc. that determine if and how they will be deployed. After deployment they (most times) are released. Resulting in the large drop in NG soldiers seen nationwide.

Beyond that, I knew and served with a man who enlisted because he wanted to go to Iraq and serve his country. But it would be crass to wave his body around to make a political point because it puts anybody with an opposing view in the position of seeming coldhearted to turn a mans death into a political debate.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Iraq units are typically deployed 12-18 months. Stop loss isnt being used as a "were keeping you till the war on terror is over" type thing. Its being used to keep units filled with soldiers so it can be deployed. Military units have a system of grading based on manpower, training, equipment etc. that determine if and how they will be deployed. After deployment they (most times) are released. Resulting in the large drop in NG soldiers seen nationwide.

The large drop is due to them getting out and not re-upping because of the pressures of the service commitments to their family. At a seminar we had recently I spoke with a Kentucky state trooper who got out of the Guard after eleven years in...he couldn't afford the war economically or socially, and it was tearing his family life apart.

One of my black belts is an NG recruiter (E-8, I believe) with twenty years in. His district is facing increasing pressure to make up for losses. If its anything like in the past, recruiters are going to start cheating.

Troop quality has declined, and recruiting standards are loosening. They recently sent a young man from our community to boot camp who had a history of seizure disorders, medically diagnosed motor coordination problems (he flunked his first physical) and Asperger's syndrome.

Beyond that, I knew and served with a man who enlisted because he wanted to go to Iraq and serve his country. But it would be crass to wave his body around to make a political point because it puts anybody with an opposing view in the position of seeming coldhearted to turn a mans death into a political debate.

Crass? Such as this woman?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/08/11/MNGVCE66FJ1.DTL&feed=rss.news

It certainly puts the President in a position of seeming cold hearted, now, doesn't it? The last I checked, he refused to meet with Mrs Sheehan.

War is an extension of politics, TGace. Casualties have always figured into the political mix when it comes to debating such issues.

Yet we have mindless comments from people like Diana Kraft of Vacaville, who comments on Sheehan's vigil by saying, "I don't know the loss she's feeling to lose a son because, thank goodness, I haven't had that, but we're in this war and we have to support the troops."

We're in this war and we have to support the troops?

Cindy Sheehan and those of us opposing the war ARE supporting the troops by calling for their return and questioning the reasons for their original deployment. This war wasn't started by the Iraqis, nor did it have anything to do with 9-11. Lame apologetics for the administration's actions and intent leading up to this debacle no longer wash.

Yet we who oppose it are painted--by what is daily turning out to be an increasing minority--with a very old and broad brush that lables us granola munching and hand wringing pacifists...tag your own stereotypes on to that. But then look at some of the soldiers speaking out against the war and you find the stereoptypes perhaps don't quite fit.

Some will call those soldiers "traitors." Note that its been done before, and likewise for poor reasons.


Regards,


Steve

 

[arnisador]

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[ginshun]

My condolences to his family.

I do have a question though.

Why is it that soldiers (or mothers of soldiers) who are oppose the war and are killed in action are newsworthy, while soldiers who support the war and are killed in action are forgotten?

 

[Marginal]

Largely because there's a stink raised by right wingers every time a TV station tries to air a memorial. Undermines the troops and all that.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

My condolences to his family.

I do have a question though.

Why is it that soldiers (or mothers of soldiers) who are oppose the war and are killed in action are newsworthy, while soldiers who support the war and are killed in action are forgotten?

Feel free to post their web sites or those listing them. Equal time is allowed here.

Here are two sites that are fairly inclusive, covering both pro and cons, listing if you like their names and details on the first link, with pictures of their faces on the second:

http://icasualties.org/oif/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/casualties/facesofthefallen.htm

That second link will give you the pictures of the troops killed by the date. The first page that pops up gives you June 9-July 31 of this summer. You can type in a name and the picture will lead you to it. Its sort of an online "wall" if you will.

No other war in our history has tracked the casualties as this one has. No other war has had the internet involved to this extent.



Regards,



Steve

 

[ginshun]

No other war in our history has tracked the casualties as this one has. No other war has had the internet involved to this extent.

And here I thought that we didn't know anything about it, seeing as how we can't see the coffins on television.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

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[still learning]

Hello, Will wars ever end? It seems the young ones must die for someone causes?

Any loss of life is not acceptable............the human race still has'nt learn....

How many more...? .....................Our prayers go the families who loss a son/daughter, Mom or Dad......Aloha

 

[hardheadjarhead]

And here I thought that we didn't know anything about it, seeing as how we can't see the coffins on television.

Nice little piece of government censorship there.

1,800 coffins laid end to end would stretch for over two miles.


Regards,


Steve