The B@stard Child of Wing Chun

wingchun100

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Forgive me if the title is a little crude, but it describes my situation.

I wanted to run this by those of you who have been certified as Sifus in Wing Chun and see what you think.

I started training in Wing Chun in 1995. I had a falling out with the teacher, and I don't believe the wounds from that can ever be healed. He teaches in the Ip Ching lineage.

I knew there was another teacher in my area who was from a different lineage (Leung Sheung). While I knew lineage hopping is frowned upon in Wing Chun, I had a choice: either switch horses, or give up Wing Chun. I could not do the latter, so I reached out to Sifu London. Fortunately, he accepted me as a student.

I should say that I fell in love with the style from my first lesson. About a year in, I had decided I wanted to be certified as a Sifu myself someday and run my own school. The falling out with the previous Sifu threw a monkey wrench into those plans.

Then in a conversation from a few months back, my current Sifu told me that he would never endorse me as a Sifu in this lineage. So I was like, "Okay...damn, now what?" This is why I call myself the b@stard child of Wing Chun. I will be DAMNED if I am going to go back to the first school, but I already know I will never be endorsed by the current one.

So long story short, the question is: NOW what do I do? Seek a THIRD lineage to endorse me? I mean, I don't think that would be feasible. For a moment I thought to myself, "Well, martial arts schools are not regulated in any sort of way. If I knew the whole system well and wanted to teach, theoretically I could open my own school even WITHOUT the endorsement/certification/what have you." But I dismissed that idea as quickly as I had it because it seemed dishonorable to me.

At any rate, I am interested to hear any thoughts on this.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Then in a conversation from a few months back, my current Sifu told me that he would never endorse me as a Sifu in this lineage
What was the reason behind this statement? Was it because you started in a different lineage? Was it because he dislikes something about your current training or attitude?

I find this pretty bizarre. The only reason I would ever tell someone that I would never certify them as a teacher is if they had some moral defect which would also cause me to not teach them or associate with them in the first place.
 

Yuen Kay Jun

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100,

Sorry to hear that you had a falling out with your first Sifu...... SUCKS!!!! Not uncommon, but a little unusual imo.

So, I would like to ask 2 open ended questions -

What was the falling out with the First? What, Why, How?

Second, why wouldn't the second consider the future possibility of working you to Sifu level?

Feel free to private message me, if you like.
 

Steve

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What Tony said. But also, in the end, as long as you don't misrepresent yourself to anyone, why not open an unaffiliated school? I don't understand how that could be dishonorable.
 
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wingchun100

wingchun100

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What Tony said. But also, in the end, as long as you don't misrepresent yourself to anyone, why not open an unaffiliated school? I don't understand how that could be dishonorable.

You're right. I guess as long as I am not calling myself "Sifu" when I am not certified as one, there would be no issue. Maybe some people who DO have certification might try to discredit me...but then again, would that even slow down the average lay person who wants to study? By that I mean most people who are looking to study an art don't care about lineage disputes.
 
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wingchun100

wingchun100

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What was the reason behind this statement? Was it because you started in a different lineage? Was it because he dislikes something about your current training or attitude?

I find this pretty bizarre. The only reason I would ever tell someone that I would never certify them as a teacher is if they had some moral defect which would also cause me to not teach them or associate with them in the first place.

I am not sure if it was about the different lineages. I mean, if that were the case, then I would think he would have said I could not train there, period.

As for my current training/attitude, I am not sure of that either because he has told me I strive for perfection like him, which makes me a joy to teach.

Honestly, on the day he said it, I was fresh off a big argument with my girlfriend. I thought to ask him for clarification, but then I was like, "You know what? I am already bummed enough. I am not in the right head space to hear his answer." LOL

The good news is, I can always revisit that conversation.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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You're right. I guess as long as I am not calling myself "Sifu" when I am not certified as one, there would be no issue. Maybe some people who DO have certification might try to discredit me...but then again, would that even slow down the average lay person who wants to study? By that I mean most people who are looking to study an art don't care about lineage disputes.
You're free to call yourself sifu, just don't claim you were given that title by your own sifu
 
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wingchun100

wingchun100

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100,

Sorry to hear that you had a falling out with your first Sifu...... SUCKS!!!! Not uncommon, but a little unusual imo.

So, I would like to ask 2 open ended questions -

What was the falling out with the First? What, Why, How?

Second, why wouldn't the second consider the future possibility of working you to Sifu level?

Feel free to private message me, if you like.

Yuen,

I wrote a thread somewhere else on MA Talk where I described the falling out. I will find it and send it via PM.

As for why he would not consider it, I answer that in my reply to Tony. To sum up: I did not ask for clarification. I plan on it at some point. I just have to be ready to accept whatever the answer is.
 
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wingchun100

wingchun100

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100,

Sorry to hear that you had a falling out with your first Sifu...... SUCKS!!!! Not uncommon, but a little unusual imo.

So, I would like to ask 2 open ended questions -

What was the falling out with the First? What, Why, How?

Second, why wouldn't the second consider the future possibility of working you to Sifu level?

Feel free to private message me, if you like.

Private message sent.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Honestly, on the day he said it, I was fresh off a big argument with my girlfriend. I thought to ask him for clarification, but then I was like, "You know what? I am already bummed enough. I am not in the right head space to hear his answer." LOL

The good news is, I can always revisit that conversation.
I would recommend talking to him again and asking for clarification. Maybe you misunderstood him. Maybe he was fresh off of a big argument with his girlfriend and was saying things he didn't mean. Even if he really did mean it, you deserve to know the reason why.
 
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wingchun100

wingchun100

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I would recommend talking to him again and asking for clarification. Maybe you misunderstood him. Maybe he was fresh off of a big argument with his girlfriend and was saying things he didn't mean. Even if he really did mean it, you deserve to know the reason why.

You're right. I have been thinking about it (obviously), and I am overdue to revisit the topic. I think I could handle the answer now.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Is this the same sifu who allows people to call people the n-word? And now he's telling you that you can't teach because of an argument you had with a sifu from over 20 years ago? But you're the one who would be doing something dishonorable by teaching/opening a school?

I just want to make sure that I understand everything correctly...
 

hoshin1600

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i have a faint memory of your prior post. i dont know how your system ranks people but i would stay untill i was experienced enough to teach then i would ask again about certification and if the guy says no. then i would part ways and OPEN MY OWN SCHOOL RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET.
you seem to either be a bad apple or have really bad luck picking teachers. personally i would give up on these guys and go for something totally different. there is no reason for a teacher to be a "little brown ring". unless your one of those guys who is annoying and keeps pestering about the same thing over and over and he just said it to shut you up.
 

Headhunter

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Quite honestly who cares if he endorses you. He can't physically stop you doing anything. Anyone can start a club if they want to...hell my 5 year old nephew could start one if he truly wanted to. That's what I've always hated about traditional martial arts all this political stuff. We all just want to train why does all this bs have to exist
 

drop bear

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who is the Leung Sheung guy you are training with? can he endorse you?
 

Steve

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Isn't "sifu" just a polite term for a guy who teaches kung fu, similar to "coach" in BJJ or "sensei" in karate?
 

Danny T

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-- I started training in Wing Chun in 1995. I had a falling out with the teacher, and I don't believe the wounds from that can ever be healed.

-- ...so I reached out to Sifu London. Fortunately, he accepted me as a student.

-- Then in a conversation from a few months back, my current Sifu told me that he would never endorse me as a Sifu in this lineage.

I really don't believe in the "certified" sifu thing.
A sifu is a person who is the head of the school and that is all. One can be certified by some one or some organization to instruct but that doesn't make you a sifu. Being the head of the school makes you a sifu. Open a school, be the head of the school and you are the sifu.
 
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