thai knife..

[brokenbonz]

do old styles of muay thai (example chaya, korat, etc.) have weapons training? So far my understanding of thai martial arts was that weapons were studied in krabi krabong only (or in the multi-style phayuth), then I found these knife videos pertaining to muay chaya:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydpztvXGjVc&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRDJrtzDJa0&feature=player_profilepage

any info?
thanks

 

[Fede]

As far as I know, there is no weapon training typical of muay Chaiya, there is no Chaiya sword or Chaiya knife.
I study muay Lanna and it incorporates Lanna sword and Lanna empty hand training.
Actually, I don't know if there is a specific Thai knife system.
I asked my teacher four years ago and he told me there is a knife throwing system but he didn't add much to that and I never enquired any further. I should do that next time I meet him.

 

[brokenbonz]

good info, thanks!

 

[blackdiamondcobra]

I just want to make a small correction. The late Kru Tonglor of muay chaiya taught the knife to several of his top students as an extension of their training. I learned it from one of his top students, saw it trained with another top instructor as well as now see it with kru praeng. Kru praeng has invented endless variations to muay chaiya so he does whatever he does and calls it whatever he does, he has created his own thing, so I refrain from commenting on that. Some learned it and some didnt and I am sure in this current atmosphere its probably a huge point of contention. The muay chaiya guys used a very specific blade which they said kru tong really liked which is like a mini kukri. I love the kukri so i adapted to the training very well.

In muay korat, they sometimes put a knife in to show you the extension of the training for more practical purposes. Old style muay was more of a complete martial art beyond just the bare knuckle fighting. But for the most part, the knife is not overly taught or stressed. But knife defense is covered in the self defense portions in most systems.

I have trained extensively in the knife throughout se asia as it is one of my specialities.

Most krabi krabong schools have the knife as part of their curriculum, some more, some less, some not at all, depends on the school and teacher, there is not one school but many different schools. Some are more practical, some are less. Depends on the teacher and school. You will see less in a physical education type of krabi krabong program because of safety and not advocating violence(thus more self defense against it) and more in the combative programs(extensive knife training progression, attack and defense). Knife throwing also taught by most.

The most practical of the knife is in the military programs and with the older teachers who were part of the seri thai(free thai movement) which was an underground resistence movement against the japanese occupation during world war II. Some krabi krabong teachers took part and they trained together in more practical techniques to be used against the japanese on the ground. I learned from two and they have many quick dispatch techniques and train in a concise practical manner. But they don't teach in the open and dont advertise it.

We see many good techniques born from this type of thing as well in Burma with the OSS and other forces, training and assimilating techniques for the native people fighting against the occupiers. After training with some top military officiers in Burma, I actually was given a burmese military training manual, it was filled with knife fighting techniques, so they are definitely covered in the military as well as in thiang.

Learned some decent knife techniques from an old cambodian in cambodia as well. So its there too in various forms.

Again like we talked about in the krabi krabong threads, you have to understand the different training modalities to find what you are looking for.

 

[Fede]

Thank you very much for the good info.

I am surprised to see that there are different knife systems
since you don't hear about these that much, especially compared
with swords and bare-knuckle.

I like what you said about the seri thai and about the old KK teachers getting together and devising the best techniques to fight the Japanese,
the fact that it's not advertised and sold as a mere product is telling for me, they won't show what could be used to save their lives or to kill an enemy-hence the secrecy. it's the opposite of most teachers in Thailand!

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I know of at least one Muay Boran kru who teaches knife and sword and part of his cirriculum. But then again, he's the only Muay Boran teacher I know.

 

[blackdiamondcobra]

Well, krabi krabong is usually the master index, so you will learn muay empty hand techniques along with weapons with most teachers. Some muay boran or muay teachers teach weapons, most were focused on developing bare knuckle fighters, when the bare knuckle era ended, they went into teaching the art in a more rounded way.

Muay boran is a physical education approach to an ancient art which is grafting techniques together from the various systems in modern times. The actual systems and progressions like in muay chaiya, muay korat, muay lanna, etc are the actual systems of old muay who fought in the bare knuckle era. There is a difference between them.

 

[grado]

no, old style muay thai training no weapon.

 

[blackdiamondcobra]

For the most part the bare knuckle systems were based on developing bare knuckle fighters and as a system of martial arts. Some teachers added some knife or knew the sword which were outside of the bare knuckle curriculum as we talked about and just used it as an extension to their teaching and it does at times fit the principles to a t. I saw muay korat with a knife and muay chaiya with a knife and the knife followed the principles of the system because the teachers really knew their systems and wanted to give their students some additional practical material which would fall into the realm of self defense.

 

[destructautomaton]

i like the ideas that some of the old masters could teach knife or other things because they had a deeper understanding of their bare knuckle styles i think the thai knife skills will be interesting to look at and i put them on my list to check out when i get to thailand shortly.