Switching my mechanics of the jab to avoid elbow flare.

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
So in the past I did the classical mistake of elbow flare but now I've tried different ways to side step that and accept a reduction in power.

Would it be a good analogy to think of a non flaring jab as a poke? This way your shoulder won't flare since it's the forearm and shoulder doing the motions. How would you describe it?
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,493
Location
Manchester UK
So in the past I did the classical mistake of elbow flare but now I've tried different ways to side step that and accept a reduction in power.

Would it be a good analogy to think of a non flaring jab as a poke? This way your shoulder won't flare since it's the forearm and shoulder doing the motions. How would you describe it?
''improving'' the mechanics, but substantially reducing the power seems a contradiction in terms ?
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
''improving'' the mechanics, but substantially reducing the power seems a contradiction in terms ?

It isn't.. Several of the hardest punchers in the history of boxing threw windmill haymakers (Shavers, Wilder, etc) . There is usually a reduction.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,493
Location
Manchester UK
It isn't.. Several of the hardest punchers in the history of boxing threw windmill haymakers (Shavers, Wilder, etc) . There is usually a reduction.
but we are talking about jabs, jabs first and foremost need to be fast, their purpose is to be faster than your opponents ability to cover or move.

if you havent got speed you haven't got anything, there is a trade off between speed and power, but it does need to hurt,them, poking them as you put it isnt optimal, try to snap their head back or at least mess up their features a bit

if what ever you were doing before produced speed and power, then changing it wasn't a good move, if its lost one or both of those
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
if what ever you were doing before produced speed and power, then changing it wasn't a good move, if its lost one or both of those

I had both but the elbow flare telegraphed it, even at my speed. So I'm gonna settle with a less powerful one. It will get gradually more powerful.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,493
Location
Manchester UK
I had both but the elbow flare telegraphed it, even at my speed. So I'm gonna settle with a less powerful one. It will get gradually more powerful.
did you spar someone to arrive at the conclusion it was telegraphed ? it really doesnt matter if it telegraphed, every boxer knows your going to jab, the issue is is it fast enough that it lands

if all your doing is watching you tube and shadow boxing your going to arrive at some strange conclusions

it may increase in power it may not, but it most definitely wont if all your hitting is fresh air. at least get a bag, that will give you some feed back on power, then work on it

a powder puff jab will just encourage people to walk through it and hit you, it needs to make them retreat
 

Danny T

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
4,258
Reaction score
2,288
Location
New Iberia, Louisiana USA
The thing about using proper mechanics with punching is that when done properly what you (the puncher) feel may seem less powerful because the stresses on your structure are transferred differently to the ground through your structure. What's important is the power being deliverer is transferred into what you are striking properly. The other person feels it while you may feel like as though you didn't punch very hard at all.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,493
Location
Manchester UK
The thing about using proper mechanics with punching is that when done properly what you (the puncher) feel may seem less powerful because the stresses on your structure are transferred differently to the ground through your structure. What's important is the power being deliverer is transferred into what you are striking properly. The other person feels it while you may feel like as though you didn't punch very hard at all.
thats very true, but you need a feedback loop, of actually hitting someone or something so you can judge the power and the force imparted

just assuming its improved because you have changed the mechanics is a dangerous assumption
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
It let me down against a taller, rangier opponent where I felt I was reaching for my shots and I just couldn't get off properly.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,493
Location
Manchester UK
It let me down against a taller, rangier opponent where I felt I was reaching for my shots and I just couldn't get off properly.
you need to jab when they are in range, if they have longer arms, then you are up against it, in a jabbing contest. at some point they will need to get close enough to punch you, thats when you jab them
 

Danny T

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
4,258
Reaction score
2,288
Location
New Iberia, Louisiana USA
thats very true, but you need a feedback loop, of actually hitting someone or something so you can judge the power and the force imparted

just assuming its improved because you have changed the mechanics is a dangerous assumption
LOL...that's true. If one doesn't actually strike something when punching there will have been no force transferred.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,493
Location
Manchester UK
LOL...that's true. If one doesn't actually strike something when punching there will have been no force transferred.
it will have transfer some of that power to the air, ive seen people measure this by hanging paces of paper and punching close to them to see what deflection they cause, i still think they should stop being tight and by a bag
 

JowGaWolf

Grandmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,889
Reaction score
3,148
So in the past I did the classical mistake of elbow flare but now I've tried different ways to side step that and accept a reduction in power.

Would it be a good analogy to think of a non flaring jab as a poke? This way your shoulder won't flare since it's the forearm and shoulder doing the motions. How would you describe it?
For me personally. I wouldn't describe it with words. I would have a person stand next to a wall where the punching arm is close enough to punch. That motion that you use to punch when your arm is that close is the motion you use to jab. Remember how it feels and repeat when training.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,231
Reaction score
2,543
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
you need a feedback loop, of actually hitting someone or something so you can judge the power and the force imparted
Agree! To test the speed and power of your jab can be done by partner training.

- Both you and your opponent have right side forward with hands drop next to the knees.
- You use right jab to hit your opponent's left back shoulder.
- Your opponent uses right leading arm to block it.
- Test this for 15 rounds and record the result.

The higher successful number that you have, the more speed that you have. The farther that you can knock your opponent's left shoulder back, the harder that your jab is.

This is very safe training. Your shoulder should be able to take a lot of power from your opponent's jab.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,231
Reaction score
2,543
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
the motion you use to jab.
What's the purpose of your jab? Do you intend to knock your opponent down by your jab? That will be quite unlikely.

So the reason that you throw a jab can be to use a jab to

1. hurt your opponent a little bit.
2. set up your next strike (a cross, a hook, a kick, or, ...)
3. achieve a clinch (make arms contact, your jab can then changes into a wrist pull).
4. ...

Besides 1, if your purpose is 2, or 3, the speed is not that important. If you use your jab as a bait, you want to make sure the fish has plenty of time to swallow it.
 
Last edited:

JowGaWolf

Grandmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,889
Reaction score
3,148
What's the purpose of your jab? Do you intend to knock your opponent down by your jab? That will be quite unlikely.

So the reason that you throw a jab can be to use a jab to

1. hurt your opponent a little bit.
2. set up your next strike (a cross, a hook, a kick, or, ...)
3. achieve a clinch (make arms contact, your jab can then changes into a wrist pull).
4. ...

Besides 1, if your purpose is 2, or 3, the speed is not that important. If you use your jab as a bait, you want to make sure the fish has plenty of time to swallow it.
The OP seems to have had a past problem of elbow flare. I'm assuming that "elbow flare" means elbows stuck out when he jab. Instead of trying to explain how to do a correct jab, provide a tool that allows a person to make a correct jab, then remember how that correct jab feels and repeat that feeling.

Without proper jab structure a person will have a difficult time getting the max speed and power out of it. At a minimum a jab should be powerful enough to interrupt your opponent's "next move". The level of power needed will vary from person to person.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
20,357
Reaction score
5,300
So in the past I did the classical mistake of elbow flare but now I've tried different ways to side step that and accept a reduction in power.

Would it be a good analogy to think of a non flaring jab as a poke? This way your shoulder won't flare since it's the forearm and shoulder doing the motions. How would you describe it?

Ok. I had a girl the other day doing pretty much this. So she was loading her jab and I could pick it too easily and she could never land it.

The easiest fix is was to throw two jabs. One flicks out and the second one loads up. And so the flick disguises the load up.

As far as elbow flare. It is situational. So it depends a bit on the angle of the jab. Which depends a bit on what they are doing.
 
Top