Striking 1 - 12 - Numerado

Rich Parsons

A Student of Martial Arts
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This thread will be my attempt at a positive techincal discussion. The rules are very simple, if you have a question ask it. If you have an answer give it. Please refrain from going off topic, if a new thread is desired either start one, or ask me and I will split this one. If anyone cannot not play nice nor refrain from only giving positive comments then I will do my best to remove them from this thread.


Rich Parsons

:asian:




The first point of discussion is the difference between striking one through twelve with control versus one through twelve with follow through or flow.


With Control (* Called Broken striking in some systems *)
1 ) Forehand To the Temple
2 ) Backhand to the Temple
3 ) Horizontal Forehand to the Floating Rib
4 ) Horizontal Back Hand to the Floating Rib
5 ) Thrust to the Abdomen
6 ) Thrust to the Chest / Heart Area
7 ) Back Thrust to the Chest / Upper Lung
8 ) Back Hand down to the Opponents right knee
9 ) Fore Hand to the Opponents left knee
10) Thrust to face / Opponents left eye
11) Thrust to the Face / Opponents right eye
12) Strike down to the Cranium

With Flow - Cutting motion
1 ) Forehand 45 degree strike downwards in the head and upper shoulder area.
2 ) Backhand 45 degree strike downwards in the head and upper shoulder area.
3 ) Horizontal Forehand strike to the mid-section.
4 ) Horizontal backhand strike to the mid-section.
5 ) Thrust to the mid section hooking upwards.
6 ) Thrust to the Chest / Heart area hooking from outside to inside.
7 ) Back Thrust to the Chest / Upper Lung area from outside to inside.
8 ) Strike to the Opponents right knee
9 ) Strike to the Opponents left knee
10) Back Thrust to Opponents right eye
11) Thrust to Opponents left eye
12) Strike down to the Cranium.


Note: 10 and 11 are switched in targeting between Control and Flow.



Why the change from Stricking to Cutting?

Explain why one might flow better than another?

Also, Explain what you might change and why?



Please remember, constructive comments, and not a bunch of pointless posts. Thank you for your time?
:asian:


(* Editied the Knee strikes. As per Cthulhu's comments below, Thank you Cthulhu :asian: *)
 
I'm a bit confused on 8 and 9. Backhand to opponent's left knee and forehand to the right knee? Right and left seem transposed to me.

Great idea for a thread, BTW. :)

Cthulhu
 
It just seems to flow better to transpose 11 and 10 after a low follow through forehand. Assuming the stick is in your right hand you are already positioned left of your center line so the 11 feeds more economically. If you look at any of the follow through forehands or backhands, you are set up for a follow up thrust. Off 1-3-9 a 7 or 11 feeds naturally. From a 2-4-8 the 6 feeds naturally.

Professor often transposed 6 and 7 in certain situations to keep a better flow for drills and not have multiple same side attacks. In the block check counter he would throw 5-7-6-8-9-11-10 to keep you working on defending from both sides without changing the rhythm of the drill

Brett
 
I never viewed "flow through" or "with control" as one being better then the other. I think it just depends on what your trying to do.

I view "with control" as a way to practice and prepare for tapi-tapi, or semi-sparring. Also, it is a good way to prapare for how to properly strike with a blunt weapon, such as a stick. I always thought this way, even before my Balintawak training. But Balintawak has confirmed this even more in making me realize that with a stick I can generate a great amount of power without "following through" when I utilize proper striking technique and focus. So, with the cane, the reasons for following through are negated; it would only leave me more open for a counter.

Now, I viewed the "follow through" method as a way to practice with the blade (espada or daga), or with a heavier blunt weapon like a club. Remember, Modern Arnis was designed for "self defense" not just for one specialty such as "stick fighting" or "knife fighting." Learning to follow through with the 12 angles has value when you have a blunt weapon that is much heavier then your average cane, and you can't adequetly strike "with control." It also has value when your cutting or "hacking." Example: if you have a cane and your #2 is blocked by their cane, following through does you no good because even if you slide past their block and tap their live hand or body, it won't do enough damage to matter, and you are left open for their counter. However, if you have a bolo and they block your #2 with their bolo, and you follow through and manage to "tap" their live hand or body, this could do severe damage to them because of the blade.

So, in conclusion, I like the "control" for stick work, and the "follow through" for blade and heavier blunt weapon awareness.

:cool:
 
After doing a #5 poke, instead of doing a standard #6 to the left side of the chest you do a ripping cross poke to the #7 or right shoulder followed by a # 8 strike, from there reverse and do a ripping #7 strike to the #6 or left shoulder followed by a standard #9 strike. This allows good follow through on the pokes and good set up for the low shots. The 6 + 7 are done like a boxing right or left cross and generates much more power than a standard poke.

I think I got all these numbers right. I tried not to confuse myself while writing them down.

bloodwood
 
Well, personally, as long as everyone speaks the same or close enough language and terms then you can work together or teach people.


With the Control Striking I always wondered why the striking pattern was not the following:

#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #12 #6 #7 #9 #8 #10 #11

This pattern is no better than any other, it is only a comment by me about striking / cutting side to side or up and down.


Thank you all for the discussion.
:asian:


(* Corrected Spelling *)
 
Anyone else have any patterns the prefer?
 
I think more patterns should be developed that concentrate on the low strikes (8+9). Most people I've seen, including myself, have trouble with them or are not as quick to respond to them as they are with higher strikes. I think this is due to the lack of drills that incorporate them and the head hunter attitude that most of us have.
Maybe this could be a good project for someone's advancement in the upper belt ranks.

SAL
 
Why are no groin shots listed? I notice there are strikes to the knees though. Is it a matter of leaving yourself open? Not trying to derail just curious.
 
1-4-3, then 2-3-4 This seems to flow very well for me because of the torque your body generates as you follow through with each strike.:cool:
 
Why are no groin shots listed?

The targets Rich listed are a tool for learning the angles. Any angle can be applied to any part of the body.

The angles can also reverse themselves: Ex
A #1 could start at the knee and follow the same path up as the #1 to the temple.
 
Originally posted by don bohrer
Why are no groin shots listed? I notice there are strikes to the knees though. Is it a matter of leaving yourself open? Not trying to derail just curious.

In my classes, any shot from any angle to the groin is strike #13.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
 
In our club, we strike 1 - 12 up and down the floor as well with a partner mirroring the action, does anyone else do this or something similar?

Best Regards
:asian:
 
Originally posted by Palusut
Hi Don,

Actually, the #5 strike can translate to a groin shot.

Palusut

You could apply a #5 to the groin, or anywhere along the centerline. You could also fire a # 8 or #9 along the centerline to cut into that area...


Tim Kashino
 
That's what I find to be the beautiful thing about this art, you have the basic 12 stikes as a form, then you break them down to multiple variations and flow's. What I have found to flow nicely is to change 6&7 in order then do a downward strike (#8) to the outside followed by a inside cross body strike (#9) wich flows nicely to a #10 to the opponents right eye, chest, shoulder, etc.. then to the 11 followed by the 12 strike to the head.

Cheers,

Train Hard and Stay True!

Rod Coutler
www.spiritfitness.com
 
I just read through this thread and need some clarification:

At a seminar with Datu Shishir (RP MA) ranked, he called 1 and 2 temple strikes and 3 and 4 neck/collar bone strikes. I was taught that 3/4 were body shots/elbow attacks. The body shots were to target the soft tissue gap between the ribs and hips.

What is it!?

Paul Martin
 
Originally posted by loki09789
I just read through this thread and need some clarification:

At a seminar with Datu Shishir (RP MA) ranked, he called 1 and 2 temple strikes and 3 and 4 neck/collar bone strikes. I was taught that 3/4 were body shots/elbow attacks. The body shots were to target the soft tissue gap between the ribs and hips.

What is it!?

Paul Martin

Paul,

I started in the early mid 80's. My local instructors all started in the mid to late 70's.

1 & 2 were describe as from the shoulder and above to the head. If you choose a specifc target you would go for the temple.

3 & 4 were from the hips to the sholders and were either the body as you say ( Floating Rib ) or the arm ( Elbow ).

The big difference was that 1 & 2 were diagonal and 3 & 4 were horizontal.

GM R Presas of Modern Arnis never correct this, as it was his books and him who taught this.


Now Shishir, started before my instructors did. He mave also have had some additional input from another system, the GM RP never tought was an issue in how Shishir taught.

Now, on a side note, if you do strike a diagonal at the the collar bone it is much harder to slip or pass then a srike that is higher on the body in targeting. I see noting functionally wrong with the technique. I do agree, that it could become confusing if you were looking for continuity between GM R Presas and Shishir I.

I know this really does not answer your question. I answered it from my point of view and experience.
 

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