Here are some videos of the spin kicks that we practice in my dojang. What do you think of these techniques? How would you train them for use in self defense?
Spin Kicks - vids and usage discussion
- Thread starter Makalakumu
- Start date
JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
I don't know if I see much difference between the first kick and a regular dwi chagi. What would be the English version of that move name; maybe that'll make me understand more.
As for the other ones, cool beans, if you're breaking boards, at least. I'd prefer something that doesn't commit me so much to a long recovery time. A good, fast dwi dul ryo chagi allows for a second kick as a followup or even a fake to back round kick, or a lot of other things.
The second one reminds me very much of Capoeira kicks, though; cool stuff.
As for the other ones, cool beans, if you're breaking boards, at least. I'd prefer something that doesn't commit me so much to a long recovery time. A good, fast dwi dul ryo chagi allows for a second kick as a followup or even a fake to back round kick, or a lot of other things.
The second one reminds me very much of Capoeira kicks, though; cool stuff.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #3
Interesting comments, JT. What spin kicks does your dojang practice? I landed one the other day during sparring. I came out very assymetrically and totally surprised my partner. In the past, I've landed them when sparring against two people. Again, the angles such that throwing one came rather quick.
Nicely executed, Upnorth (or can I can you Kyosa for short?).
Altho' spinning hook kicks, reverse roundhouse and back kicks are excellent for technical practice, as well as developing a lot of power, I do concur that if it ever came down to 'real world' use they're perhaps a touch too slow (that does depend on both the practitioner and the target(s) of course
).
There's always the surprise value of course, which can be exploited a little easier if you open the distance a step or two and then spin the kick back in when your opponent follows you - that way he's moving and not just waiting, which makes it a little harder to avoid or otherwise nullify the kick.
Altho' spinning hook kicks, reverse roundhouse and back kicks are excellent for technical practice, as well as developing a lot of power, I do concur that if it ever came down to 'real world' use they're perhaps a touch too slow (that does depend on both the practitioner and the target(s) of course
).There's always the surprise value of course, which can be exploited a little easier if you open the distance a step or two and then spin the kick back in when your opponent follows you - that way he's moving and not just waiting, which makes it a little harder to avoid or otherwise nullify the kick.
jdinca
Master Black Belt
Spinning rear thrust: Adds power to a regular rear thrust and allows you to throw a kick to the front that normally goes to the rear. I've been caught by this one in the gut and it threw me about 10 feet.
Spinning heel hook: Great way to crack a guy in the head. Depending on the position the person is standing in, it could also be used for a shot to the kidneys. I've witnessed people in the ring get knocked out with this one.
Spinning reverse crescent: Targets the head, hits the side of the head the bad guy probably isn't expecting.
These kicks were all in my last belt. Perfection of the basic kick was A #1, and the spin comes second. Initially the two components were trained seperately and then added together at slow speed until proficient and then speeded up.
The spin is to add power to the basic kick. It's of utmost importance to get the head around as quick as possible to spot the target.
I do have a style question. It appears that the heel hook and the reverse crescent are done as straight leg kicks. Is that typical in TSD? We chamber our kicks and time them with the spin for maximum impact to the target. In addition, we don't take the spin on the rear thrust all the way around to the original position. The spin stops when the kick is delivered and then we step forward after the rechamber.
JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
Well, sparring's one thing, and surprise is another thing as well. I agree that they're fairly decent at surprise, and you do seem to do them with a good bit of speed. However, as I said, just your basic dwi chagi or dwi dul ryo chagi (back wheel kick) will surprise your opponent, counter more things than I can count, and give you the advantage of not having to recover from your leg spinning wide. As I said before, you can back wheel kick your opponent to the head, then come around immediately with a second attack to the other side of the head. Lead this in with a quick fake to make your opponent drop his hands, and you can see why having an attack that's fast and fast on recovery is a good idea.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #7
Nice observations on these techniques. We train these kicks like that. And to answer your question, we start teaching the kick the way I showed it. Once the student picks that up, we start to mess with the things that you are describing.
JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
I concur. Straight-leg kicks are good for stretching, but otherwise there's less speed, slightly less power in the right direction, and less control. We have an exercise where we hold onto a bar on the wall and practice snapping out sidekicks from a chambered position and returning to that chambered position. We also have an exercise where we must do a front kick, side kick, and then back kick with the same leg (in three different directions) without letting the foot (and more importantly the knee) drop.
jdinca
Master Black Belt
I hate bar work...
JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
Well, with that extra support, it's easier to get muscle memory for things like that...the second exercise I mentioned is sans bar, though. That, I can tell, you, is a tough one to do at the end of class, when you're lucky if you can still feel your legs after the workout.
I like the kicks and it you generate a good deal of power and quickness in delivery.
I would be concerned that the preparation footwork (rotation of the front foot for the rest to follow) would give too advanced of a tell for them to be very effective against a good opponent. It probably wouldn't be so bad with a set up, or an opponent that likes to concentrate on your eyes rather than the whole. You would likely catch me with it.
