Sikhs killed in shooting at Temple in Wisconson

[Tez3]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19143281

"This is something we have been fearing since 9/11, that this kind of incident will take place," said Rajwant Singh, chairman of the Washington-based Sikh Council on Religion and Education.
"It was a matter of time because there's so much ignorance and people confuse us [as] being members of Taliban or belonging to [Osama] bin Laden," he told Associated Press.
"We never thought this could happen to our community," Devendar Nagra, 48, told Associated Press, "we never did anything wrong to anyone."


Deeply shocking that anyone could walk into a place of worship and just gun people down whatever their religion.

 

[elder999]

Deeply shocking that anyone could walk into a place of worship and just gun people down whatever their religion.

It truly is an obscene atrocity, but I don't find it shocking at all........it's what we've done all along, after all, in spite of what our religions tell us.

 

[Tez3]

I refuse not to be shocked by things like this, the day we start thinking it's normal will be a very sad day indeed.

 

[Wo Fat]

Terribly tragic, yet not surprising. We already know "why" and we already know "how". The biggest shame of all is how this kind of thing has and will continue to find a certain degree of acceptability in our society.

My thoughts and prayers to the shooting victims (including the police officer) and all of their families.

 

[Big Don]

There is a somewhat large Sikh community here. As a group, the friendliest people I've met.

 

[Tez3]

Sikhs here have been part of our community since the early 19th century, they have served bravely in all our wars and contribute a huge amount to our country. So very sad for them.

 

[elder999]

I refuse not to be shocked by things like this, the day we start thinking it's normal will be a very sad day indeed.

Too bad. Whether it's the genocide of Mohawk children, perpetrated by the Anglican church with the support of the Vatican, in the name of the Queen of England, or the massacre of Palestinian Muslims praying at the Cave of the Patriarchs, perpetrated by an extremist Israeli, or the slaughter of the Albignesian crusade, 1209-1255, when Arnaud-Amaury, asked by a Crusader how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics, answered: "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" – "Kill them [all]! Surely the Lord discerns which [ones] are his"-creating an all-American catchphrase that predated "TAPOUT" for T-shirt asshattery, human beings have been killing the each other in mass-quantities over religion, or perception of religion since.....well, almost since we've been on the planet-basically since "religion" moved away from being personal, and became a poltical force for the control of individuals and society.

Nope. Perfectly normal, 'cause us humans are pretty much perfectly ****ed up.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Sikhs have been mis-identified as Muslims by racist knuckleheads since 9/11. The first person murdered by someone seeking revenge was an Arizonan Sikh gas station owner, mistaken for a Muslim by the aircraft mechanic who shot him five times.

It is extremely unfortunate that people hate others based on their religion. But the long-running 'all Muslims is bad' rhetoric has had an effect on borderline personalities. And since these morons are in fact morons in addition to being murderous, they see a turban and make an assumption about the person wearing it.

 

[elder999]

Sikhs have been mis-identified as Muslims by racist knuckleheads since 9/11. The first person murdered by someone seeking revenge was an Arizonan Sikh gas station owner, mistaken for a Muslim by the aircraft mechanic who shot him five times.

It is extremely unfortunate that people hate others based on their religion. But the long-running 'all Muslims is bad' rhetoric has had an effect on borderline personalities. And since these morons are in fact morons in addition to being murderous, they see a turban and make an assumption about the person wearing it.

Oh, yes, and Bill is quite correct in pointing out the susceptibility and downright idiocy of the species, Americanus redneckus boogereatin' greentoothed moronicus, but they've never really needed much of an "excuse" to kill someone. I say "excuse," because there usually isn't anythin reasonable about it, nor, however, is it in anyway "excusable."

"Motivation" perhaps? They need little in the way of motivation to lay waste to their fellow human beings. Sad.

 

[Jenna]

Nope. Perfectly normal, 'cause us humans are pretty much perfectly ****ed up.

That is a big ol statement!

 

[Tez3]

Too bad. Whether it's the genocide of Mohawk children, perpetrated by the Anglican church with the support of the Vatican, in the name of the Queen of England, or the massacre of Palestinian Muslims praying at the Cave of the Patriarchs, perpetrated by an extremist Israeli, or the slaughter of the Albignesian crusade, 1209-1255, when Arnaud-Amaury, asked by a Crusader how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics, answered: "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" – "Kill them [all]! Surely the Lord discerns which [ones] are his"-creating an all-American catchphrase that predated "TAPOUT" for T-shirt asshattery, human beings have been killing the each other in mass-quantities over religion, or perception of religion since.....well, almost since we've been on the planet-basically since "religion" moved away from being personal, and became a poltical force for the control of individuals and society.

Nope. Perfectly normal, 'cause us humans are pretty much perfectly ****ed up.

Actually massacres due to religion institutions are rare, the murder of American Natives has always been down to wanting the land they 'own', the Cathars weren't just murdered because of their religion but more that their free thinking threatening the status quo that and the land they held. What causes wars is the lust for power, land and wealth, religion may be the guise that wars are perpetrated but the real reasons are human nature indeed but not religious fervour.
Individuals however often feel the need to kill because of their religious feeling.

 

[granfire]

Actually massacres due to religion institutions are rare, the murder of American Natives has always been down to wanting the land they 'own', the Cathars weren't just murdered because of their religion but more that their free thinking threatening the status quo that and the land they held. What causes wars is the lust for power, land and wealth, religion may be the guise that wars are perpetrated but the real reasons are human nature indeed but not religious fervour.
Individuals however often feel the need to kill because of their religious feeling.

Ongoing problem.
some believe the bad Muslims (many if not most stem from Saudi, an 'Allie' of ours) are encouraged to seek enemies outside their country an eventually faith by repressive regimes in order to give the pinned up dissatisfaction an outlet: the Mufti points fingers, the unhappy, angry people blow themselves up, peace and faith is safe...and of course the power.

And in turn it works the same way...make a villain out of dark faced people with turbans, the odd Sikh here and there is collateral damage. Money keep rolling into the right pockets because we need to be protected, jobs are safe, influence continues.


We have always had reason to kill, religious fervor makes it easy and clean to do so. After all, what can be better than doing it in the name of G-d?
And in most cases, when you have no identifying marks on 'them' you need something to distinguish your target group....

 

[Tez3]

Much easier to kill people who's land/wealth you want or because you want the power, if they are 'heathens' ie don't believe the same as you do, much easier to kill people who aren't 'you'. Religion puts the gloss of respectability on behaviour that would otherwise be seen for what it is, despicable.

then there's those who just enjoying killing....

I will always be shocked at incidents like this, I will never accept that we should believe this is how we have to be.

 

[billc]

And killing to create the perfect society as per Germany, Russia, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba...without the need for religious motivation...

And of course you have the killings on 9/11, the killings in Mumbai India and the killings at Fort Hood and the recent theater shooting.

 

[granfire]

Much easier to kill people who's land/wealth you want or because you want the power, if they are 'heathens' ie don't believe the same as you do, much easier to kill people who aren't 'you'. Religion puts the gloss of respectability on behaviour that would otherwise be seen for what it is, despicable.

then there's those who just enjoying killing....

I will always be shocked at incidents like this, I will never accept that we should believe this is how we have to be.

I am not shocked.

I look at it and try to analyse the mechanisms at work. Not like I could change them, because they have ruled mankind since they discovered that smashing two rocks together creates a wonderful weapon to easier bash a skull in.

i can easily put myself in a lot of situations and view things from a different perspective. but some things I just have to scratch my head and wonder wtf was he/she thinking.

hate is one of those things, especially grounded in prejudice: Give people time and they will give you real reasons to dislike them, other than religion and skin color.
but to me, lazy as I am, even strong dislike takes too much effort. It seems liking people is more beneficial for my energy balance....


(and then of course there is billie, not realizing that the very nonsense he chooses to spread is the very fuel for such senseless killings. his very own 'bad old Muslim' propaganda is at the root of this latest shooting)

 

[billc]

What nonsense would that be granfire? And technically, we don't know "why" although it might be easy to assume mistaken Identity and a desire to target muslims, however, the criminal may have been in "psychological operations," before he may have been kicked out of the military so you would think he might know the difference between Sikhs and Muslims. Also, he wasn't from the area, why did he move there to do his attack? He may have been from the Chicago land area. Things that will be interesting to find out.

Also, it is good that the murderer was killed at the scene by the police.

 

[billc]

So far...

CBS News reports that Page enlisted in the Army in April 1992 and was given a less-than-honorable discharge in October 1998. He was last stationed in Fort Bragg, N.C., serving in the psychological operations unit.

 

[billc]

On hate crimes in the U.S....

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/FBI-sees-leap-in-anti-Muslim-hate-crimes-9-11-2750152.php

After African Americans, the most victimized groups included Jews (1,196 victims), gay men (1,152 victims), whites (1,065 victims) and persons of ethnic and national origins who are not white, black, Latino, Asian, Pacific Islander or Native American (1,822 victims).
The report also showed that 68 percent of hate crimes were committed against people and 32 percent against property.
10 HATE-CRIME MURDERS
Ten of the hate crime victims in 2001 were murdered, according to the report. Nine of the murders were motivated by racial or ethnic hate -- three victims were African American, two were Latino, one was categorized as Asian or Pacific Islander, and the other three were listed as "other." One murder was motivated by anti-gay bias, the report said.
There were no slayings of Muslims reported. The report listed intimidation as the most common hate crime against Muslims last year, with 296 incidents. There also were 27 incidents of aggravated assault and 66 incidents of simple assault against Muslims, the report said.

HATE CRIMES REPORTED TO THE FBI IN 2001 The FBI's annual account showed that reports of U.S. hate crimes increased 21 percent last year. . -- Hate crimes blamed on religious bias 2001 2000 Anti-Jewish 1,043 1,109 Anti-Muslim 481 28 Anti-Catholic 38 56 Anti-Protestant 35 59 Other (x) 231 220 1,828 1,472

There is also this look at hate crimes in the U.S.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/08/27/99767/hate-crimes-against-muslims-rare.html

WASHINGTON — Hate crimes directed against Muslims remain relatively rare, notwithstanding the notoriety gained by incidents such as recent vandalism at the Madera Islamic Center.
Jews, lesbians, gay men and Caucasians, among others, are all more frequently the target of hate crimes, FBI records show. Reported anti-Muslim crimes have declined over recent years, though they still exceed what occurred prior to the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
"We see hate crimes generally go in spurts, and are often in relation to international or domestic events," Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said Friday.
In 2008, 105 hate crime "incidents" against Muslims were reported nationwide. There were 10 times more incidents recorded as anti-Jewish during the same year, the most recent for which figures are available.
The number of anti-Muslim hate crimes leaped to a record 481 in 2001, apparently prompted by the terrorist attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center. It hasn't been nearly that high since.
All told, 7,783 reported hate crime incidents occurred in 2008, including 1,381 in California. These incidents can take many forms.
Lodi resident David Halla, for instance, was arrested Monday and charged with assaulting a 76-year-old charter bus passenger while en route from Modesto to the Chukchansi Gold Resort-Casino. This could count as a hate crime, as witnesses say Halla shouted racial epithets at the Spanish-speaking victim.
On the other hand, if Halla had called the alleged victim old, that wouldn't have been recorded as a hate crime, because age is not covered by federal hate crime laws.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/08/27/99767/hate-crimes-against-muslims-rare.html#storylink=cpy​

press conference on the killings is about to start...

 

[Wo Fat]

And killing to create the perfect society as per Germany, Russia, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba...without the need for religious motivation...

And of course you have the killings on 9/11, the killings in Mumbai India and the killings at Fort Hood and the recent theater shooting.

Conspicuously absent from those regimes is the old Confederacy whose legacy lives on through this very day (just spend a day here in Georgia and observe all manner of celebration through license plates, flags, bumper stickers, etc.). It's being reported that this particular terrorist espoused supremacist views consistent with the Confederacy that many still feel the need to celebrate today.

Again ... no surprise that when people "celebrate" the right to hate, eventually someone is going to act on it.

 

[billc]

Huh? And the supporters of the other ideologies march openly in movements here in the U.S. including OWS and rallies for democrats.