Self Training...

[Martial_Maniac]

I know someone who is a "self-taught" sword practitioner. I was just wondering about your feelings on teaching yourself. I personally think you should learn an art like swordsmanship from someone who is qualified to teach it and not try to teach yourself.

 

[Blindside]

I think most people on this board would agree with you.

I have run into several self-described "ronin" who are out practicing based on such authoritative sources as Highlander, Excaliber, or the Last Samurai. (I might have forgiven them if he knew who Toshiro Mifune was. ) My only exception to this general rule is to those scholars out there who are currently working on recreating the historical European martial arts.

Lamont

 

[Martial_Maniac]

i am not at all changing my opinion, but just to point out, Miyamoto Musashi claims to have been completely self-taught and he is , in my opinion, the greatest swordsman in history.

 

[Charles Mahan]

Miyamoto Musashi was not entirely self taught. He apparently learned a great deal from his father. Do some more research.

 

[Paul B]

I do believe Musashi was taught traditional swordsmanship by his father,then struck out on his own at the tender age of 12-13(?)..by any means a virtuoso.

I can't really remember the exact age,hopefully one of our scholars could give you a better answer. The point is,he didn't just decide to start swinging a sword around and decide to take on challengers. The "basics" came from somewhere.

*edit* Thanks Charles,I posted over you.

 

[Martial_Maniac]

Sorry but I should have been more clear. I know he wasn't completely self-taught and yes, his father did teach him swordsmanship when he was a boy. I just meant that he didnt have a "master" to whom he credited his skills.

 

[searcher]

Self-teaching IMHO is extremely dangerous, to the learner. To many times I have seen cuts and serious injuries from students trying to teach themselves how to use edged weapons. I can only say to self-teach is truly taking your life into your own hands. In one word, scary.

 

[hwarang]

I dont know i started off self tought and pretty much figured it out, then i started learning it from a pro, there is deffinitly an advantage to learning from someone, then trying to make it to your own way of doing it

 

[Shane Smith]

I am a firm believer in finding competent instruction. I am a researcher,practitioner and Instructor in the field of the Western European Martial Art's(I also taught TKD under my Master for a couple of years until discovering WMA) and while much of our research is done on an individual level, our theories and interpretations are always brought forth to our fellow Scholars for a proper reality check to include full-speed, intense fencing against other skilled Swordsmen.

 

[Makalakumu]

Self-teaching IMHO is extremely dangerous, to the learner. To many times I have seen cuts and serious injuries from students trying to teach themselves how to use edged weapons. I can only say to self-teach is truly taking your life into your own hands. In one word, scary.

I remember one time, when a new student walked into our arnis class. My teacher was expecting him. He had a pronounced limp. When asked, the student told us that he was trying to teach himself how to use a knife from a book on FMA. He tried something in the book and ended up stabbing himself in the butt!

 

[silatman]

There is NO substitute for a flesh and blood instructor in any art, weapon or empty hand.
There is no way to no if you are picking up the sutilties or just gross movements.

 

[Floating Egg]

How did the Martial Arts develop originally? At some point was there a student without an instructor?

 

[bignick]

Nobody just woke up one day and knew all the answers. There never was the "original" master. Human combat has been evolving for millenia starting with our natural instincts for self-preservation and progressing past that. Along the lines somebody figured out how to use a stick to defend themselves, somebody else figured out that if you sharpen the end of the stick you can stab. He passes this onto his students/family/etc and somewhere else down the line somebody figures out that if you use sharpened metal or stone you get a better weapon...and it continues. The knowledge that humans have, in any area, has been developed over long periods of time and did not appear out of thin air overnight. Some people have certainly furthered our knowledge in the Martial Arts further than others but it's a steady rhythm, the instructor teaches what he knows, the student takes it and improves what he can and passes that on to his students...and so on, and so on....

 

[Grenadier]

Finding a good instructor is the safest, and best way. That being said, there are some swordsmen over the history of time that received some training, and then trained on their own, to become excellent swordsmen, indeed.

Assuming that someone has the talent to do this (and that's a VERY big assumption), and is dedicated, then why not? Of course, no matter who the aspiring swordsman is, I would still recommend starting out with a bokken, at the very worst. Even with a bokken, though, he would certainly have to treat it as if it were live steel.

 

[evenflow1121]

Most neo-grandmasters of systems are "Self Taught". Sword like just about anything else is in the martial arts, is too complicated to be self taught. Anyone can thrust or slash with a sword, but without knowing proper stances and the proper way to hold the sword as to not get your fingers cut off, or how to keep it away from your body, you are kidding yourself.

 

[Floating Egg]

Isn't it possible for untrained swordsmen to learn the necessary skills by trial and error?

 

[Blindside]

Sure, but the problem is that they are presumably "trial and erroring" against other untrained swordsmen. The odds say that they produce crap most of the time.

Lamont

 

[evenflow1121]

Isn't it possible for untrained swordsmen to learn the necessary skills by trial and error?

Possibly if you have an individual who dedicates his life to the art of swordsmanship, and practice with or against others through trial and error. However, that would seem very rare these days, most people only practice a few hours a day, so I have to agree it would be more like trial and erroring for most that do this.

 

[JAMJTX]

I agree with the original poster "Martial Maniac".
Sword Arts, especially Japanese Sword Arts are extremely complex. It may look easy, and someone good at it makes it look that way. But it is a precise art that requires close attention to minute details.

You need the scrutinizing eyes of a master teacher.

That said, highly qualified Iaido/kenjutsu teachers are few and far between, although the number of competent teachers is growing. I'm talking in the U.S.

So with the absence of qualified instruction, a lot of people are taking to video training. Being one in the video business, I hope to be able to somewhat take advantage of this trend. But, video needs to be used supplement training, not be the only source of instruction.

If you are dead set on learning one of these arts and there is no instructor locally, find someone who will have videos available but will also have access to via camps and clinics or can get to train directly with in some way.

 

[MA-Caver]

i am not at all changing my opinion, but just to point out, Miyamoto Musashi claims to have been completely self-taught and he is , in my opinion, the greatest swordsman in history.

Well also remember this... Miyamoto Musashi had also a number of opponents to "practice" on thus could hold that title very well. But he only lived, fought, died in Japan. Who's to say how well he would've done against an European sword fighter or one from China or India, Middle East? Totally different styles here, different set of rules, formalities and such.

Having a compentent instructor is yes, a good idea as with any Martial Art. Question is where to find in your area? Yellow pages?
When I was younger I was fascinated with sword arts, particularly (like most people) the Samurai Kendo. Done some self teaching (never with an actual sword) and then moved to knife arts and was self taught there (with actual knives... haven't cut myself yet ). I moved away from sword arts because I asked myself: "when in the hell am I EVER going to actually use a sword against a real opponent? Mebbe never, hopefully never
So for me it became pointless to learn any further. But I still admire it and if opportunity arises then perhaps take up with a compentent instructor.