Running the Forms in Reverse

[MisterMike]

Has anyone tried running the Parker Kenpo forms in reverse to see if there is any applicable motion in them?

Tip: Move the coffee table out of the way before you attempt it

We all know about the story of GM Parker running the videos in reverse and becoming more aware of Kenpo's potential. Has anyone else ever looked into it?

 

[Ceicei]

Yes, I have. So far, I've only done Short 1 and Short 2 in reverse. Doing Long 2 in reverse is still posing a challenge for me. The most benefit for me in doing this, by going slower in recalling how it should be done, forces me to concentrate more on stance placements and proper targeting.

As far as finding other applicable motions, I'm still discovering them.

- Ceicei

 

[MisterMike]

Yea, I haven't even thought about approaching anything after Short 3 - other than watching on film...

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Has anyone tried running the Parker Kenpo forms in reverse to see if there is any applicable motion in them?

Tip: Move the coffee table out of the way before you attempt it

We all know about the story of GM Parker running the videos in reverse and becoming more aware of Kenpo's potential. Has anyone else ever looked into it?

Yes, been doing it for close to 12 years now.

DarK LorD

 

[Kenpo Mama]

Has anyone tried running the Parker Kenpo forms in reverse to see if there is any applicable motion in them?

Tip: Move the coffee table out of the way before you attempt it

We all know about the story of GM Parker running the videos in reverse and becoming more aware of Kenpo's potential. Has anyone else ever looked into it?

I have attempted to do this several times, and it seems very challenging for me. I start by doing a sequence of the forward moving form and then slowly unwinding the sequence. Then i try to add a little more, each time having to perform the forward moving sequence before going in reverse, till i get to the point that i just can't add anymore without having to rerun the forward moving sequence (like i'm hiccupping with motion).

Does anyone find that videotaping and working in reverse helps a little, or should i just keep practicing the way i am, adding a little bit more and repeating the forward moving action?

Kenpo Mama :ultracool

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Does anyone find that videotaping and working in reverse helps a little, or should i just keep practicing the way i am, adding a little bit more and repeating the forward moving action?

Kenpo Mama :ultracool

Hey,

Ok you guys mirroring the techs is enough for me for now! Donna if you have a tape of yourself doing the form the normal way I could reverse the motion for you and rip you a dvd. That way you could follow your own reverse motion minus the hiccupping. If you think that would help you in this ambitious task drop me an email or give me a call.

MJ

 

[Brother John]

Form One = not SO hard.
beyond that = much more challenging.


Your Brother
John

 

[Kenpo Mama]

Hey,

Ok you guys mirroring the techs is enough for me for now! Donna if you have a tape of yourself doing the form the normal way I could reverse the motion for you and rip you a dvd. That way you could follow your own reverse motion minus the hiccupping. If you think that would help you in this ambitious task drop me an email or give me a call.

MJ

Thanks for the offer MJ, as soon as i get some time, i'll put something together and ring ya' up - if i need to burn the dvd, i might try it on my own equipment first, i dabble a little here and there.

Donna

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I've tried doing the ones through four backwards. It is a good mental challenge.

However, it is about as valuable as listening to Beatles songs backwards. And, if you are too young to know what you learn from listening to Beatles songs backwards. You reportedly hear stuff like: "Paul is dead" and "worship Satan".

So what do you get if you do Kenpo forms backwards? You hear stuff like: "Ed is dead" and "worship Al Tracy".

 

[Shodan]

Interesting concept here.....I'll have to try it out some time.......I have enough trouble trying to keep them all straight going forwards though!! :idunno:

 

[kenpo tiger]

I was taught that doing the forms backward not only gave you some insight into what you were doing, but also utilizing it as a teaching tool. If you know the form well both ways, if asked a question, it doesn't require 'air form' to get to that point. In my opinion, whether this is imperative or even somewhat valuable depends upon the individual and what she/he wants from martial arts study. KT

 

[GAB]

Hi,

Not being from the EPAK system nor a postulant, I have always felt the founder and the system to be similar in nature to the cult thought pattern.

Believe me when I say this I am not being derogatory, I am just making an observation based on my experience and knowledge of then and now, to belong to a cult is not in my make up. This is going to offend but please do not let it.

When thinking of a cult, think of someone who is devoted to Elvis and then you can understand it is more in the line with worship. So that said.

I feel this playing back on the 16 or 8 mm film that EP and EP did was long ago and was in someway possible for the "Founder" to make up the system, to do it now for a pass time or for the fun of it is just that (IMHO).

You would be better off working on a speed bag for 20 minutes and on a tied two ended ball for 10 minutes and a heavy bag for a 5 minute duration striking (heavy bag) slow and with methodical punch's not to hard just through the bag and making it move distinctly.

While hitting with your hands have a footwork drill, the male/female pattern, while hitting with the same side. In other words, hit the bag with your right hand have your right foot foreward when hitting with your left hand have your left foot forward. No gloves.

While hitting the two end tied bag make sure you are close enough to the bag to use it to dodge and block or strike with open and closed hands not allowing it to hit you in the face, strike with your hands, fist, elbows, forearms, but do not let it hit any part of the body you do not want hit, keep close to it or no fair. Using similar footwork as on heavy, bag only switch some times and have the opposite foot forward then the hitting hand. No gloves.

On the speed bag use a soft leather one not to full of air so you have got to hit it to move it and practice hitting it with knuckles, palm, fingers, backhand. On this bag no gloves either.

Now the nice thing about this is you don't have to worry about the coffee table.

Regards, Gary

 

[Shodan]

Am I the only one confused here?!! How does doing your forms in reverse.....or Mr. Parker doing his forms in reverse.....or watching them in reverse have anything to do with a cult?

Not getting it.......... :idunno:

 

[rmcrobertson]

I love this stuff. I'm not a, "postulant," and it's all just like Elvis-worship, but you shouldn't in any way take offense. Yes, one should--even though it's often useful to rethink one's participation in martial arts.

Of course, one should also rethink the necessity of teaching one's grandma how to suck eggs, 'cause, gawrsh, none of us nobodies never done thought of no aspect of the essential functionality of transference-reactions, to say nothing of the formation of what may be idendified as, "popular delusions and the madness of crowds," in the discourse of martial arts. Why, hell-fire boy, uhr you a-sayin' that such aberrations as demanding excessive bowing, or that one's students do not eat before the Master does, uhr you a-sayin' thet there's something wrong here-abouts? Well, ah'll be gosh-darned.

And ah also never done heard of no bag-work before. Not in kenpo, no way.

It might be more useful to conside the fundamental differences beween practicing forward and reverse motion, and what I take to be the make-work of fetishizing techniques on both sides, in case there is any difference.

In the meantime, it would behoove us all to be a little more generous in our assumptions about what others know and do not know.

 

[GAB]

Robert, do you really think that? Do you not know where I am coming from?

Have I not been clear, the complete lack of needing to do the reverse forms and confuse yourself more and why would you want to do more to confuse yourself for the sake of confusion? When in actuality, what you need to do is more hands on hitting.

I am just saying and said, I believe the EPAK system is composed of more people that worship the ground EP walked on then understand the reason for a real exercise to make one confident rather then make one less confident with a useless drill or tech. If I failed to convey that maybe this post helps.

Besides I am not going to use the words you want me to use, my style your style, EPAK, JKD, Karate, whatever.

Anything to put the person in a mind set of confusion rather then the obvious,
learn to hit and be hit, no more no less.

No matter what you say, I am not degrading the system, I am degrading the teaching mentality of keeping everyone in the dark (mushroom mentality).

It is that way now, and when he was around converting to his way of thinking, your special way with words won't change it.

Regards, Gary

 

[KenpoTess]

MOD NOTE

Please Keep the thread on Topic- which is 'Running the Forms in Reverse'. This is a very strictly moderated EPAK forum and will continue to remain so.

~Tess
-MT S. MOD-

 

[kenpo tiger]

Robert, do you really think that? Do you not know where I am coming from?

Have I not been clear, the complete lack of needing to do the reverse forms and confuse yourself more and why would you want to do more to confuse yourself for the sake of confusion? When in actuality, what you need to do is more hands on hitting.

I am just saying and said, I believe the EPAK system is composed of more people that worship the ground EP walked on then understand the reason for a real exercise to make one confident rather then make one less confident with a useless drill or tech. If I failed to convey that maybe this post helps.

Besides I am not going to use the words you want me to use, my style your style, EPAK, JKD, Karate, whatever.

Anything to put the person in a mind set of confusion rather then the obvious,
learn to hit and be hit, no more no less.

No matter what you say, I am not degrading the system, I am degrading the teaching mentality of keeping everyone in the dark (mushroom mentality).

It is that way now, and when he was around converting to his way of thinking, your special way with words won't change it.

Regards, Gary

Gary,

There are ALWAYS (emphasis, not shouting) going to be the fundamentalists in ANY martial art, and they will be looking for the key which will unlock all secrets to them. That holds true for ANY style. As to cult mentality, there are some martial arts which encourage people to fit a certain mold. That's a choice each person makes when engaging in study of a martial art - whether they want to fit in and 'just do' or to truly learn by 'just doing' and then experimenting with the best way to do it.

Mr. Parker encouraged celebrities to train in kenpo and to appear at his early tournaments in order to get the general public to see what it - and martial arts - were all about. All marketing, and Mr. Parker was a very savvy marketer of his "product". Use of celebrity endorsement is a common practice, as I'm sure you are aware. I do not believe it contributes to cult mentality.

I personally do not believe that running the videos backward would be helpful. As I posted earlier, I was taught, oddly enough in another art and not kenpo, to practice my forms backward to enhance my own personal training and make me a better instructor. This is also a personal choice, and one which has served me quite well on my journey. It isn't for everyone.

I do not necessarily agree with everything everyone posts, but to dismiss someone out of hand for an idea which sounds strange to you is counter-productive to learning and growing as a martial artist, in my opinion. KT

 

[GAB]

OK, if that is the thought pattern, so be it.

Tess has moderated two threads I am on so I would say I am the observed culpret. That's funny.

Regards, Gary

 

[rmcrobertson]

It was very clear. That's why I objected.

I can't tell you how hilarious the notions are that a) I am a mindless member of a cult (which my repeated posts concerning looking at Mr. Parker realistically should have told anyone), and b) I haven't gotten hit enough where I train over the last decade or so, and c) my teachers have kept me in the dark.

As for running the forms in reverse, I remain interested in discussing why this differes from running them on both sides; I have my ideas, what are yours?

 

[pete]

It might be more useful to consider the fundamental differences between practicing forward and reverse motion, and what I take to be the make-work of fetishizing techniques on both sides, in case there is any difference.

reverse motion contains options for exit strategies and counter manipulations...