S
sercuerdasfigther
Guest
i know this is probably old, but could someone give a brief describtion of the differece between remy's and ernesto's arts.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
The styles are completely different, @ least through my experience of them.
I am not good on the history of Ernesto, but I believe that Remy Presas and Ernesto have very different backgrounds that influence their arts.
I think that if someone could post some info on Ernesto's training background, then I could answer better some of the historicle differences between Remy and Ernesto.
I am not good on the history of Ernesto, but I believe that Remy Presas and Ernesto have very different backgrounds that influence their arts.
I think that if someone could post some info on Ernesto's training background, then I could answer better some of the historicle differences between Remy and Ernesto.
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Here's a thread that covered that exact question. Happy reading.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433
Yours,
Dan Anderson
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433
Yours,
Dan Anderson
OP
OP
sercuerdasfigther
Guest
thank you dan.
I read the thread line that Dan posted and if there is still any interest I'll be glad to add to what was discussed before.
Also if you go to the Escrima Digest (I think it is the FAQ section) where the different styles of escrima are listed I wrote the section for Kombatan after Ray wanted some information on the system. I basically talked to GM Ernesto when we had him out last year and what was wrote reflects what was discussed.
Time to get the kids to bed though.
Mark
Also if you go to the Escrima Digest (I think it is the FAQ section) where the different styles of escrima are listed I wrote the section for Kombatan after Ray wanted some information on the system. I basically talked to GM Ernesto when we had him out last year and what was wrote reflects what was discussed.
Time to get the kids to bed though.
Mark
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Hey Mark,
What's up?
Yours,
Dan
What's up?
Yours,
Dan
Dan
I'll email you later
I read Dieter's post on the thread that Dan posted and figured I might be able to add something to this discussion.
I started with the Professor in 95 and with GM Ernesto in 96. I was fortunate to have an instructor (Hock) who studied with both of them and he recommended me to do the same. So every year I attended camps with both of them, and GM Remy and GM Ernesto was alright with that (as far as I knew). I still plan to attend camps with the Modern Arnis groups and I still plan to have or attend GM Ernesto camp when he is here in the states.
I teach a combination of their systems and I agree with Dieter in that it is the best of both worlds. Their systems complement each other to a degree and fill in where the other system might be lacking somewhat.
For instance Modern Arnis has a heavy emphasis on locking and controling a person, and Kombatan has a heavy emphasis on striking. Where MA has the locking techniques laid out in a progression Kombatan has the hitting, striking, blocking, laid out in a progression. While both systems have locking and striking the ways and the depth of teaching in the locking and striking are vastly different.
For instance GM Ernesto's double stick material not only covers a multitude of Sinawalis (as people have mentioned) but also he has his blocking and striking (force to force and palis palis) systems contained in that part of his art as well. Along with Double stick disarming etc. etc. Where GM Remy didn't go that deep (at least not in the seminars/camps I attended).
However while both of the brother's have classical single stick material. GM Remy had the more modern method of tying in compound locking and such that I've never seen GM Ernesto do.
GM Remy has the Tapi Tapi drills and those are very deep, and I agree with Dieter that what little I have learned and seen of the freestyle drill it seems to be not near as complex or have the depth that the Tapi series does. However GM Ernesto has his palit palit (?) or give and take (I feed and you feed) freestyle feeding drill that I believe is the core of his system.
In this series it teaches you to have different blocking and striking techniques with different parts of the stick/knife/palm stick/ empty hand whatever. And as your partner feeds than you block and you return another strike back and forth. But this drill is used with a multitude of different weapon or empty hand combinations and to me this is a core drill that is more similar to GM Remy's Tapi Tapi. (Although it is easier to do, I think it has depth that maybe the freestyle drill doesn't).
Kombatan's knife work is also more extensive than what GM Remy taught at the camps I attended as well. Again I think this is because of the jujitsu influence GM Remy had and wanting it to be a self defense type of a art. GM Ernesto on the other hand had a much more combative feel to it with the same/similar locks and throws but more strikes inbetween.
GM Ernesto also taught alot of espada y daga in the form of mini katas (not really anyos but like mini katas of 4-5 moves). maybe combinations is a better term. As well as disarming and take downs in EYD. Again I only had two instances back in 95-97 that GM Remy covered any EYD. I asked him about it and he said it was impractical for today so he didn't really teach it (that was in 97 or 98).
GM Ernesto's emptyhand built on the techniques learned previously in the other sub systems so they were more of the hit them slam them to the ground and follow up. There wasn't the emphasis on learning the multitude of locks and such as in Modern Arnis.
One last item. Where Dieter found GM Remy to be very approachable and confident (is that the right word) I find GM Enresto to be the same. Infact one of my former students who went to 3+ camps of the Professor's meet GM Ernesto for the 1st time and thought he was more approachable than GM Remy. I really don't think of one more highly than the other they are (where) both great, and I'm grateful for the time I got to spend with each of them.
What a long post. I hope this gives you some idea of the differences between the systems. However if you have learned Modern Arnis, Kombatan blends right in.
Mark
I'll email you later
I read Dieter's post on the thread that Dan posted and figured I might be able to add something to this discussion.
I started with the Professor in 95 and with GM Ernesto in 96. I was fortunate to have an instructor (Hock) who studied with both of them and he recommended me to do the same. So every year I attended camps with both of them, and GM Remy and GM Ernesto was alright with that (as far as I knew). I still plan to attend camps with the Modern Arnis groups and I still plan to have or attend GM Ernesto camp when he is here in the states.
I teach a combination of their systems and I agree with Dieter in that it is the best of both worlds. Their systems complement each other to a degree and fill in where the other system might be lacking somewhat.
For instance Modern Arnis has a heavy emphasis on locking and controling a person, and Kombatan has a heavy emphasis on striking. Where MA has the locking techniques laid out in a progression Kombatan has the hitting, striking, blocking, laid out in a progression. While both systems have locking and striking the ways and the depth of teaching in the locking and striking are vastly different.
For instance GM Ernesto's double stick material not only covers a multitude of Sinawalis (as people have mentioned) but also he has his blocking and striking (force to force and palis palis) systems contained in that part of his art as well. Along with Double stick disarming etc. etc. Where GM Remy didn't go that deep (at least not in the seminars/camps I attended).
However while both of the brother's have classical single stick material. GM Remy had the more modern method of tying in compound locking and such that I've never seen GM Ernesto do.
GM Remy has the Tapi Tapi drills and those are very deep, and I agree with Dieter that what little I have learned and seen of the freestyle drill it seems to be not near as complex or have the depth that the Tapi series does. However GM Ernesto has his palit palit (?) or give and take (I feed and you feed) freestyle feeding drill that I believe is the core of his system.
In this series it teaches you to have different blocking and striking techniques with different parts of the stick/knife/palm stick/ empty hand whatever. And as your partner feeds than you block and you return another strike back and forth. But this drill is used with a multitude of different weapon or empty hand combinations and to me this is a core drill that is more similar to GM Remy's Tapi Tapi. (Although it is easier to do, I think it has depth that maybe the freestyle drill doesn't).
Kombatan's knife work is also more extensive than what GM Remy taught at the camps I attended as well. Again I think this is because of the jujitsu influence GM Remy had and wanting it to be a self defense type of a art. GM Ernesto on the other hand had a much more combative feel to it with the same/similar locks and throws but more strikes inbetween.
GM Ernesto also taught alot of espada y daga in the form of mini katas (not really anyos but like mini katas of 4-5 moves). maybe combinations is a better term. As well as disarming and take downs in EYD. Again I only had two instances back in 95-97 that GM Remy covered any EYD. I asked him about it and he said it was impractical for today so he didn't really teach it (that was in 97 or 98).
GM Ernesto's emptyhand built on the techniques learned previously in the other sub systems so they were more of the hit them slam them to the ground and follow up. There wasn't the emphasis on learning the multitude of locks and such as in Modern Arnis.
One last item. Where Dieter found GM Remy to be very approachable and confident (is that the right word) I find GM Enresto to be the same. Infact one of my former students who went to 3+ camps of the Professor's meet GM Ernesto for the 1st time and thought he was more approachable than GM Remy. I really don't think of one more highly than the other they are (where) both great, and I'm grateful for the time I got to spend with each of them.
What a long post. I hope this gives you some idea of the differences between the systems. However if you have learned Modern Arnis, Kombatan blends right in.
Mark
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Mark,
Great post. It gives a good distinction between Modern Arnis and Kombatan.
Yours,
Dan Anderson
Great post. It gives a good distinction between Modern Arnis and Kombatan.
Yours,
Dan Anderson
I just thought of something
I guess it was on the thread that Dan posted but someone mentioned loud KIA's or something.
I don't remember any kia's but I do remember "FAAASSSTTTER FAASSTTEER!!!!!!" "COME ON COME ON!!!!!" "BE LIKE ME!!! (in reference to adopting the same position GM Ernesto is in to learn the next technique.)"
Those words echoing off of the gym walls as I pick myself up off of the wood floor (during the last couple of hours of a two day seminar) for the upteenth time after getting tossed there from my partner learning any number of the different techniques that we did. Oh those were the days.
On a bit more serious note GM Enresto is different than the Professor in that his seminars were run in a much faster quicker pace. The Professor taught in a friendlier kinder funnier manner, GM Ernesto is much more all business so he might seem more millitant (is that the right word). Oh well maybe everyone gets what I mean.
Mark
I guess it was on the thread that Dan posted but someone mentioned loud KIA's or something.
I don't remember any kia's but I do remember "FAAASSSTTTER FAASSTTEER!!!!!!" "COME ON COME ON!!!!!" "BE LIKE ME!!! (in reference to adopting the same position GM Ernesto is in to learn the next technique.)"
Those words echoing off of the gym walls as I pick myself up off of the wood floor (during the last couple of hours of a two day seminar) for the upteenth time after getting tossed there from my partner learning any number of the different techniques that we did. Oh those were the days.
On a bit more serious note GM Enresto is different than the Professor in that his seminars were run in a much faster quicker pace. The Professor taught in a friendlier kinder funnier manner, GM Ernesto is much more all business so he might seem more millitant (is that the right word). Oh well maybe everyone gets what I mean.
Mark
OP
OP
sercuerdasfigther
Guest
hello boar man,
i will never complain about more detailed info, thank you very much.
i will never complain about more detailed info, thank you very much.
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