Psychology of Confrontation Theory

[Dominic Jones]

Dr Ron Chapel recently talked about the 4 Stages of Range. When talking of the 1 Stage (Out of Range/Contact) he mentioned that it has a sub-category called “Psychology of Confrontation Theory”.

In my opinion important information regarding Stage 1 (Out of Range/Contact) includes the following areas of study:
1. 5 Stages of a Violent Crime- see Marc “Animal” MacYoung and Dianna Gordon http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html
2. Ritualized Combat see Darren Laur’s Street 101 http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold/laur.htm
3. Bodies reaction to fear/stress see Darren Laur’s and Bruce Siddle’s “The Anatomy of Fear” http://stickgrappler2.tripod.com/street/anatfear.html
4. “The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill" see Dave Grossman http://www.killology.com/article_onkilling.htm
5. Your Gut Instinct, see Gavin De Becker “The Gift of Fear” http://www.gavindebecker.com/books-gof.cfm

I am interested in this sub-category “Psychology of Confrontation Theory”. If possible Dr Chapel could you expand on this?

Cheers Dom :asian:

 

[Doc]

Dr Ron Chapel recently talked about the 4 Stages of Range. When talking of the 1 Stage (Out of Range/Contact) he mentioned that it has a sub-category called “Psychology of Confrontation Theory”.

In my opinion important information regarding Stage 1 (Out of Range/Contact) includes the following areas of study:
1. 5 Stages of a Violent Crime- see Marc “Animal” MacYoung and Dianna Gordon http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html
2. Ritualized Combat see Darren Laur’s Street 101 http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold/laur.htm
3. Bodies reaction to fear/stress see Darren Laur’s and Bruce Siddle’s “The Anatomy of Fear” http://stickgrappler2.tripod.com/street/anatfear.html
4. “The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill" see Dave Grossman http://www.killology.com/article_onkilling.htm
5. Your Gut Instinct, see Gavin De Becker “The Gift of Fear” http://www.gavindebecker.com/books-gof.cfm

I am interested in this sub-category “Psychology of Confrontation Theory”. If possible Dr Chapel could you expand on this?

Cheers Dom :asian:

Well sir, you have posted some recommended books on the subject (of which "Gift of Fear" is the only one I suggest), so I'm left to presume you've done some significant reading (5 books) on the topic. I'd be interested in your understanding and views of this component so that I might expand my perspective based on what you have gleaned from your reading.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Careful, Dom. If that doesn't sound like a chess-master baiting you to move your pawn to open your queen, not sure what does.

Good Luck,

Dave

 

[Doc]

Careful, Dom. If that doesn't sound like a chess-master baiting you to move your pawn to open your queen, not sure what does.

Good Luck,

Dave

Not at all actually. I am as much a student as a teacher, and when you stand up in class and recommend 5 books on the topic of discussion, I have to presume you have done some extensive research on the topic, and actually have read those books, and have at least formed an opinion on some aspects of the topic. I know when posters like rmrobertson suggest reading material, he's not just spewing random titles, or suggesting others go out and read books he hasn't read himself.

It is easy to ask questions, but those that know me also know I take significant time and make a considerable effort to answers questions reasonably complete and concise to convey real information. It is only reasonable to expect the same from those who would participate that I might learn other points of view and therefore grow myself. I am not a "knowitall," I just want to "knowitall" as any good student should be.

Mr. Parker used to become frustrated when students would ask questions that require complex and lengthy answers, which he supplied only to have the student reply, "I see." (or not at all). He was from the school that said, "You gotta put in the work, if you really want to get something out of it."

Students should avoid questions like, "So what's up with the universe?"

Check!

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

So...what is up with the universe? :boing2:

I enjoy reading your posts, even if I don't understand half of what you've said, and think I may disagree with the half I think I do understand. I think.

Cogito, ergo, Con-sum. I think, therefore I drink (Philosophers Bar, Cali-Frisco).

I haven't read these books, yet, and as a former communication psychologist, find the phrase "Psychology of Confrontation Theory" itself quite interesting, if not poorly formed in description. I, too, have been checking in on this thread for elaborations on what exactly the phrase means, both as a theoretical construct, as well as an application.

Do you, Doc, have any recommended resources (reading) on Confrontation Theory as referred to here, so that one might be able to follow along in an informed manner? Which, if any, of the above titles would you recommend reading first as an overview or primer? For now, at least, I have some time on my hands with which to read avocationally.

Respectfully,

Dr. Dave

 

[Doc]

So...what is up with the universe? :boing2:
I haven't read these books, yet, and as a former communication psychologist, find the phrase "Psychology of Confrontation Theory" itself quite interesting, if not poorly formed in description. I, too, have been checking in on this thread for elaborations on what exactly the phrase means, both as a theoretical construct, as well as an application.

PSYCHOLOGY OF CONFRONTATION THEORY – The use of a series of historic, cultural, environmental, emotional, mental, and physical clues to assist in determining the intent and methodology of probable assaults for the purposes of mapping and predicting probabilities in aggressive human interaction.

Do you, Doc, have any recommended resources (reading) on Confrontation Theory as referred to here, so that one might be able to follow along in an informed manner? Which, if any, of the above titles would you recommend reading first as an overview or primer?

Dr. Dave

Yes sir, I do recommend the Gavin De Becker books, all of which are excellent, but particularly “The Gift Of Fear.” As a personal risk assessment expert, in this book in part through anecdotal re-telling of severe physical assaults, he shows how from a third person perspective, we should easily have predicted much of the pre-physical behavior as “high risk” and dangerous. He does not deal with the physical self-defense, but prevention through the assessment of the probabilities based on human clues of behavior and pre-physical prevention.

In my opinion most moral people are “socialized” out of the power to recognize many subtle danger clues, and/or we choose to ignore them and our “gut feelings” in “polite” sociological human interaction. Then also for the majority of “good people,” they are not subjected to the possibility of being seriously assaulted on a day-to-day basis therefore they are precluded the opportunity to consciously exercise instinctual pre-physical self-defense behavior.

Ed Parker and I spent a considerable amount of time examining human behavior and physical clues to possible aggressive behavior, drawing on both our own “ghetto” experiences, my personal experiences as a career law enforcement officer, and a social psychologist student of his. Mapping behavior was/is fascinating because of the many variables that consistently lead to the same results. It was Ed Parker who suggested Mr. De Becker’s work. This is the reason why I have been familiar with his work for quite some time.

Ed Parker used to say how humans are nothing but more intelligent animals whose intelligence and socialization can work against their chances for survival in a hostile environment. This is the source of his listing “environment” as the number one self-defense consideration. He often said, “An animal walking through the jungle whose is attacked by other animals, would never say, I never thought that would happen to me.”

Those who have chosen to study martial activity have at least taken the first step to acceptance of the possibility. In our curriculum the specific clues are taught as a part of the pre-assault and subsequent physical attack. Thus students, (who obviously aren't thugs or "street wise") are taught "how" the element thinks, reacts, body language, physical methodologhies, etc. that initiate assaults, and the ability to recognize them in advance and take preparatory measures to either avoid or physically deal with the "challenge" when it is unavoidable. We spend as much time on the "how" of a specific attack, as we do the defense.

Thanks Dr. Dave for the "non-universe" question.

 

[Tgace]

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13729

Similar thread I started a while ago that didnt get too much play.......

 

[Michael Billings]

Yes sir, I do recommend the Gavin De Becker books, all of which are excellent, but particularly “The Gift Of Fear.” As a personal risk assessment expert, in this book in part through anecdotal re-telling of severe physical assaults, he shows how from a third person perspective, we should easily have predicted much of the pre-physical behavior as “high risk” and dangerous. He does not deal with the physical self-defense, but prevention through the assessment of the probabilities based on human clues of behavior and pre-physical prevention.

Just started the book, synchronicity.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I'll pick it up. Calibrating non-verbal behavior and paralinguistic modifications to probable shifts in cognitive processes as a predictor of human behavior has always been a thorny one to evidence empirically, but I believe anyone who has ever felt threatened by a change in another persons mood has "intuitively" experienced the validity of these concerns first hand.

I'll probably have some comments and/or questions after the read.

Regards,

Dr. Dave

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I will have to add this to my list of books to read.

I am a huge believer in body language. The way a person looks (expressions), moves, and carries themself can give you a ton of information regarding possible intent.

For instance a little over a year ago I was fiddling around under the hood of my car while parked at a gas station in a decent part of town. I was parked on the side of the station away from any phones, pumps, etc. While I was looking at my car I noticed an individual coming up behind me. I turned and made eye contact with an early 20's male in grungy clothing with an angry expression staring at me as he continued to move towards me. The guy was less than 10ft. away and had not given any sort of verbal indication as to his intent (still making eye contact), i.e. "excuse me.." "can you help me.." etc, so I stepped towards him grabbed him by the front of his shirt and pushed him about 3 feet back into the side wall of the gas station. As I pinned him to the wall he immediately responded by saying,"hey what's up man?" After a few exchanges I decided to release him and he walked on down the street. Whether I over-reacted or not I'll never know, but based on our exchange I would guess that I didn't. What I do know is that something didn't feel right about his energy at that time (I know that sounds weird, but it's how I felt). Being a small guy (5'9" 170) I can't afford to get too far behind the "power curve." Also, I don't really like the idea of being reactionary, not much room for error. I would rather over-react a little and be wrong instead of not reacting at all and having to deal with those consequences whatever they may be. I know it's a stupid story but it was the first time I remember fully analyzing someones body language and feeling like I had a full understanding of the situation before anything actually happened.

 

[DavidCC]

Calibrating non-verbal behavior and paralinguistic modifications to probable shifts in cognitive processes as a predictor of human behavior has always been a thorny one to evidence empirically, but I believe anyone who has ever felt threatened by a change in another persons mood has "intuitively" experienced the validity of these concerns first hand.

That is one heck of a sentence! And a very good point, too.

 

[Dominic Jones]

I'm off on holiday for a few days. I'll follow up with my thoughts on the first five references; directly (as they say in Cornwall).

Interesting so far...

Cheer Dom :asian:

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

That is one heck of a sentence! And a very good point, too.

Thank you, and sorry. Every once in a while, the ritalin kicks and the brain wakes from the fog. God, I'd be dangerous if I could just keep a train of thought!:wink1:

 

[Doc]

I'm off on holiday for a few days. I'll follow up with my thoughts on the first five references; directly (as they say in Cornwall).

Interesting so far...

Cheer Dom :asian:

It has now been more than a month. I'm still waiting.

 

[kenpo_cory]

PSYCHOLOGY OF CONFRONTATION THEORY – The use of a series of historic, cultural, environmental, emotional, mental, and physical clues to assist in determining the intent and methodology of probable assaults for the purposes of mapping and predicting probabilities in aggressive human interaction.

Could this fall under Variable Expansion and Environmental Awareness? I'm probably way off as usual. :asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Just started the book, synchronicity.

Oss,
-Michael

I've read it myself, twice. How ever, I wouldn't let anyone get close if I could help it, just to many variables. I gotta see!

As for Kenpo Yahoo, he doesn't sound small to me! :asian:

Moral of the story; never mess with a mechanic! :xtrmshock

 

[sumdumguy]

Could this fall under Variable Expansion and Environmental Awareness? I'm probably way off as usual. :asian:

Well, that's pushing it I think. It's largely if not all based on documented studies that determined specific actions and reactions of individuals in, before, and after a confrontation. I am sure Doc will clear this up better.
:asian:

 

[kenpo_cory]

Well, that's pushing it I think. It's largely if not all based on documented studies that determined specific actions and reactions of individuals in, before, and after a confrontation. I am sure Doc will clear this up better.
:asian:

Yeah that's one of the things I like about Doc, he'll definitely let me know if I’m wrong.

 

[Doc]

Could this fall under Variable Expansion and Environmental Awareness? I'm probably way off as usual. :asian:

"Variable Expansion" is a mis-understood physcal execution concept.

As I stated previously, it was partially the work on PSYCHOLOGY OF CONFRONTATION THEORY, that made him consider "enviroment" as a significant component in all confrontations.

Parker in an effort to illustrate the importance of environment told me a story about an adversary of pre-president Abraham Lincoln who was always challenging him to fight. Lincoln always turned him down. Then one day after much persistence and insistence on a fight, Lincoln observed that his challenger was only about 5'11'' in height. As most know, Lincoln was well over 6 feet tall. So finally Lincoln said, "I'll fight you if I can pick the place and you can pick the time." His adversary seeing satisfaction within his reach agreed quickly. So Lincoln said, "I'll meet you at the river outside of town in 6 feet of water. What time do you want me there?"

"In our curriculum the specific clues are taught as a part of the pre-assault and subsequent physical attack. Thus students, (who aren't thugs or "street wise") are taught "how" the element thinks, reacts, their body language, physical methodologies, etc. that initiate assaults, and them the ability to recognize them in advance and take preparatory measures to either avoid the assault when possible, or physically prepare and deal with the "challenge" when it is unavoidable. We spend as much time on the "how" of a specific attack, as we do the "how" of the defense."

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Parker in an effort to illustrate the importance of environment told me a story about an adversary of pre-president Abraham Lincoln who was always challenging him to fight. Lincoln always turned him down. Then one day after much persistence and insistence on a fight, Lincoln observed that his challenger was only about 5'11'' in height. As most know, Lincoln was well over 6 feet tall. So finally Lincoln said, "I'll fight you if I can pick the place and you can pick the time." His adversary seeing satisfaction within his reach agreed quickly. So Lincoln said, "I'll meet you at the river outside of town in 6 feet of water. What time do you want me there?"

Doc,

This is a great story! It seems that most martial arts schools don't take environment into consideration when training. At our school we train on nice flat mats and in very good lighting. There are no extra background noises or other distractions. To me there is no reality here. In a real fight the terrain will most likely be uneven, and there will be lots of obstacles to get around...cars, trees, furniture, maybe other people etc., and lots of background noises and other distractions.

Do you train students in your school under different environmental conditions? Do you think this is important, and if so do you have any suggestions for how to bring more environmental reality to training?

MJ :asian: