Problems with my Teacher

[FasterthanDeath]

Well on Thursdsay this last week I went to Kenpo Class with a friend of mine and some of the on going issues have finally come out in the open. First off let me say that as far as me and my Teacher, I think he teaches great karate, and knows exactly the what, know and why when it comes to teaching Kenpo. But on a personal level man to man, I really dont like him. And for awhile I couldnt put my finger on it and I really had no reason not to like the man. He was a good father, a good teacher, and he invites me to his home and teaches me for a reasonable price. But something was there that I couldnt figure out. The only way I can explain it is, when he would look at me or talk to me. He wouldnt see me. He would me seeing through me or around me, but not me. Its like he wasnt talking to me, But at me, not in a bad way, but like he has to deal with me. And thats fine. I wanted to keep the relationship simple and not too close, to keep it drama free. But he doesnt know how I feel about him, and wont until next week when we have class again. You see the friend of mine who I went with, has been going for awhile now. He is very dedicated, and is a very good student. But these last couple of months some things have been brought to his attention. His belt ranking is higher than mine, and our teacher is always asking him, or looking to him for the info on a technique or what technique this is, and you see this frustrates my friend so much. My friend who I will call X is always wanting to know more. And now that he has invested serious time in the system he wants to really continue his training. Well for the last three or four months he has been at the same belt rank, not because he couldnt pass the belt test. But because our teacher has failed to teach him the rest of the techniques. Or any of the forms required for that belt. So when we go to class we think that we are going to learn some quality material and that our time wont be wasted. But all X does now is review and teach other students in the class and remind our teacher of techniques and drills that he already knows. This last time we had a short class. Our teacher had to go somewhere early the next day. We didnt know this he didnt call us and tell is this. So our class is about 25 mins long. And all X and I did was review techniques we know. So we left and started going home, well another student calls us and tells us that our teacher was mad cause X didnt pay him and that he doesnt know what to do about it and that he is going to have to straighten out the situation between him and X. This just pushes X over the limit. Our teacher has had an agreement with us. That if you cant pay for a class, that we can work something out, you can do something at his house, give him a ride somewhere, something like that. X has been paying this whole entire time, and when he didnt pay he told our teacher why and made arrangements to compensate him some other way. Well X now wants to give him a wad of cash and quit because of how or teacher handled it, and I just dont feel right about going to him either. Because if this is how he handled his best student how is he going to handle me? Anyway, any suggestion on how X and I should handle this would be appreciated. There is alot more to tell about this man's character but just based on this please help us out.

 

[Ceicei]

A question: Is teaching part of X's requirement for his next rank?

- Ceicei

 

[Ceicei]

It also sounds like the teacher is in a burned out phase. Perhaps he needs to get out of the burned out rut before he can get enthusiastic about teaching again.

- Ceicei

 

[Rob Broad]

I would sit down with the instructor and ask why nothing new has been taught for a while he has no valid answer move on to a different instructor.

 

[shesulsa]

Unless I missed it, you don't mention how long you've been with this teacher, if you have a financial arrangement with him, or if you are also not receiving any new instruction.

There could be several different things going on - your teacher could be burned out as Ceicei suggested, your friend might have more issues with your teacher than you know, your teacher could be having family problems or health issues or other personal problems he doesn't want to (and shouldn't) concern you with.

Personally, I would advise you to keep your nose in your own book and, if you have a problem directly between you and your teacher, handle it with him directly. In the meantime, keep your eyes and ears open...and your mouth - ahem - *shut* when it comes to other students and this topic. Spreading rumors and asking questions from other people about something like this probably isn't the best course of action if you really want to train.

Also - take a moment or two alone to reflect on your reason for training. If this conflict comes down to an issue solely between your teacher and your friend and you want to continue training and your friend won't return to this teacher...will that sway you? Are you training because your friend is and you think it's cool? Or are you training to make yourself a better quality individual - to learn skills you can't learn anywhere else?

I don't mean to be demeaning here - it's an honest question worthy of much consideration and constant re-evaluation as you progress.

Respectfully...

 

[mj-hi-yah]

You have expressed some of your own feelings of discomfort with your instructor. Try your best to separate your friend's issues from your own and examine the situation from where you stand. If you are not happy and you feel you are not learning you have a right to end your training so long as you have not signed any contracts. If you have you should honor your contract or resolve it in some way with your instructor. It sounds to me that he may have taught your friend all that he knows at this point and may be learning himself. That does not mean that there is still not much that he can offer to you. I think that you should discuss your feelings with him but limit the discussion to what applies to you and your training. :asian:

 

[Disco]

The information you provide is sketchy at best. There is more involved here than what you offer. Several have offered some good advice based upon what is known, but we need more information.

mj-hi-yah stated that the teacher may have shown all he knows. Just what rank is the teacher and what rank is your friend X? This could be the problem, but from your discription of other aspects, i.e. "looking thru you" - but yet he invites you to his home, gives reason for confusion. As stated above, we need more information to give helpful responses.

 

[shesulsa]

This could be the problem, but from your discription of other aspects, i.e. "looking thru you" - but yet he invites you to his home, gives reason for confusion. As stated above, we need more information to give helpful responses.

It could also be that he looks "through" you because he sees X in you or equates you with X. Or he just looks at people that way. There is power in the empty eye - so I've heard.

I don't really need anymore information, with all due respect to Disco. I personally think you should mind your business, settle your conflicts (YOUR conflicts) with your teacher privately (absent of X or of his knowledge), and train and let train.

If you're still not sure, then please post more info.

 

[Michael Billings]

Who knows the issues underlying X's problem with ya'lls teacher, or his. There are a lot of "issues" that crop up as student's progress, as teachers take them for granted and what would be normal acceptable expectations in a traditional martial art years ago, or even today, are no longer the case ... especially when students are also customers. I guess it depends on how you and your friend value your teacher' knowledge and attitude toward you. These are two entirely seperate issues.

You have to give us more information re: the school, how it is set up, do you pay per lesson as you go, or is there a monthly tuition, etc.? Either way, you need to deal with YOUR issues with your teacher, not your friend's. Hopefully they can resolve it between them, especially if they have years of training invested in each other. If not, then it could be partially your friend's attitude (not what you want to hear, I know), COMBINED with you instructor's attitude right now. Who knows, he could be going through some kind of serious personal issues that he is not sharing (divorce, bankruptcy, parent terminally ill), or he could just be a jerk ... but I bet he is not since both you and your friend have found reason to stay with him for an extended period.

Good advice above, you can listen to your friend, but don't get in the middle or take sides. I know that is hard, but you end up dealing with MORE than just your issues, and if you over-react, and they work things out, you are left holding the bag, and being uncomfortable around both of them. Bide your time and give it a few weeks to see what happens. We will hope for the best ... but if not let us know, you may end up having to take some action.

-Michael

 

[OC Kid]

If X and you are that5 close then you should both sit down and talk to the instructor. There could be a lot more going on than you realize. We are all human he could have some personal issues with his home life for example. The students in the class my need more help. You may not be ready for testing you may not have the current techniques down good enough to go on and learn the new ones.

Who knows, go to him with a open heart and mind and talk to him with all the respect that should be shown to a instructor..

 

[rmcrobertson]

Teaching, I know. And:

1. As was mentioned, it's impossible to tell what's going on from your description.

2. Some of the things you mentioned--most obviously the suggestion that you're pissed because you've been at the same belt rank for, "three or four months now," sound a lot more like your problems than the teacher's.

3. Mostly--not always, but mostly-martial arts teachers should not be inviting students home, or reinforcing the idea that they're anybody but their own kids' fathers.

4. Transference, in Freud's sense of the word, is ALWAYS at issue in these sorts of relationships. In fact, they are essential to good teaching, which is why it's so dangerous to have untrustworthy teachers running around loose. However, transference also drags up all sorts of weird ideas in students.

5. A couple years ago, I had a student in an advanced English class who stayed after class to chew me out. What was her problem? I kept offering suggestions about things to read if they really wanted to understand the material, and putting notes on the board--yes, this is actually what the student told me.

6. I don't see how what you're reporting about what this guy's hassling your buddy about is in any way a bad thing. The way you describe it, it seems as though the instructor's doing exactly what he or she should be doing.

7. What's the big rush, anyway? Only a couple months? That's nothing. And, there's always the chance you haven't figured out what you're being taught yet.

8. There are very, very few martial artists who couldn't stand more work on basics, and on the material, "they already know."

9. Whatever the instructor's doing, seems to me the question to be asked is: what are YOU doing? As a professional teacher, I can tell you that many students, these days, are unwilling to pay--and I'm not talkin' money here--what it takes to really learn. They want short cuts, and grow indignant when told that there aren't any.

10. It remains quite possible, of course, to get a truly gawdawful teacher.

 

[TigerWoman]

I agree with the advice from Shesulsa and McRobertson:

Your teacher may be going through personal problems now and is distracted --skipped classes, no teaching. Happened to me and my family in TKD while he was going through a divorce and he needed money etc. But because he needed money testing went on-on schedule though.

I have a situation going with my instructor as many know, but I would not expect others to get in between because it would hurt their training as it has mine. Two years ago, I had a choice to get in-between and this is my penalty. It sounds like your friends problems are not heavy enough to do that and the price you would pay would be dear. Leave it alone, and let it settle for awhile

BTW,I was six months at one belt when it usually took 3-4, no big deal--its not a race.
Train and be happy. TW

 

[shesulsa]

BTW,I was six months at one belt when it usually took 3-4, no big deal--its not a race.

Yes, I would like to touch on that also - I study a Korean martial art, and we test when our instructor thinks we're ready to do so, so we don't really have a regularly scheduled grading, as it were. As we go higher in rank, it takes longer to really get the nuances of more complicated techniques and more practice is required, so the time between promotions is often longer the higher you go. There was once a minimum time requirement for each rank - that is to say if you're a red belt you must remain in that rank for a minimum of 9 months or a year (I don't know what the exact time requirements are/were or if they even still exist anymore). Some instructors hold fast to this requirement, I assume; I also assume others do not.

When I assisted one teacher in a kid's class, we would ALWAYS be inundated by the question, "When will s/he test next?" We tried to explain that memorization of techniques and other material is not enough - we waited for the technique to mature so that it would be effective and their little muscles go the hang of the movements and became accustomed to the more advanced combinations. I think adults should be handled no differently. Wouldn't it be a disservice to the individual to promote them before they're in that place?

 

[TigerWoman]

Yes, Shesulsa, students should not be promoted until they learn the values of the rank they are in. Sadly, I have seen too much of that happening lately. When income which is necessary for the school becomes more of a factor. So students advance unless they are totally inept and sometimes even then. I remember drilling for long stance over and over for days on these two lines. I remember not passing white belt!!!! until I could do a really long stance and having the strength and balance to pass from one stance on one side to center to the opposite side diagonal without putting my foot down. I don't see that happening now. Overweight people don't diet and are cut a break in form because it is too hard for them. Too hard to diet, to have willpower, to know it is better for them. I don't understand alot. I don't understand making standards hard for some and easier for others when it does no service for them. Its just money for the school. Today, I went to an art fair downtown and a father told me he was going to pull his children out because they are not learning good stances and blocks. There's competition in town, a new second degree who is more strict. Competition is good. TW

 

[FasterthanDeath]

ok here is so more info, for those of you who are telling me to just stay in my own buisness and keep my mouth shut I do appreciate it. As I said I want everyones opinon on it. Any info is good, so dont be afraid to tell me something even if you feel that its putting me down or sounds horrible. I have thought about keeping my mouth shut and just continuing. As far as giving you more info, I will tell you some, as I want to keep this situation very discreet. I am a low belt, way low belt. X is a good student. Very good. Very disciplined. And has put his life and soul into it. I pay him on a lesson basis. For each lesson I give him a prearranged amount. Like I said I dont want to tell you how much it is but its average to what you pay at a school. X and myself have both known our teacher the same amount of time. About 3 years. And I have just now been going back to learn from him again. I go because Kenpo is a great art, and it is very scientific and answers the "what if"s to alot of self-defense questions. I personally have an issue with my teacher because he just rubbed me the wrong way when I met him. Nothing he has said or done did this, just that first impression you know that is hard to forget. I have kept that to myself, until this incident where alot was let out. One thing which still sticks to me is an issue with a female student. She feels uncomfortable going to learn from him because of the things he has done, jokes, groping, and offers of things. I wont go into detail, but she has no reason to lie about it. I dont know her! She infact wont go unless X and I are going for a lesson. She will be quitting here soon though, I believe at the end of the month. My problem is not with his teaching, or how he has treated me, its how I see him treat others. Those who have been there longer than me. And I feel that by me giving him money each lesson, I am directly or indirectly supporting that. With that, more suggestions please.

 

[Zepp]

It's important to be comfortable around your teacher, and to be able to trust him (or her in other cases). If the way your instructor treats other people makes you too uncomfortable to focus on training, you should probably look for another school. There may another Kenpo instructor somewhere near you.

But even if you stop paying him, that's not going to change the way he treats his remaining students.

BTW, that female acquaintance you mentioned doesn't necessarily have to stick around until the end of the month to get her moneys worth. If your instructor has been openly sexually harrassing her, she could leave now, and demand that he return the remainder of the money she paid, or she sues him. (She may want to consider just suing him anyways. Groping a student is pretty despicable.) Just some advice you might consider passing on to her. But that's still her problem, not yours.

 

[shesulsa]

...X is a good student. Very good. Very disciplined. And has put his life and soul into it. I pay him on a lesson basis. For each lesson I give him a prearranged amount. Like I said I dont want to tell you how much it is but its average to what you pay at a school.

Okay, so...who are you paying for lessons? X or your teacher? is X your teacher? The way the above statement reads is that X is who you are paying, but you both have the same teacher???

X and myself have both known our teacher the same amount of time. About 3 years. And I have just now been going back to learn from him again. I go because Kenpo is a great art, and it is very scientific and answers the "what if"s to alot of self-defense questions. I personally have an issue with my teacher because he just rubbed me the wrong way when I met him. Nothing he has said or done did this, just that first impression you know that is hard to forget.

If your first impression of this man wasn't good and didn't improve over the time you knew him, why are you taking lessons from him (assuming you are and X is not your teacher)?

I have kept that to myself, until this incident where alot was let out. One thing which still sticks to me is an issue with a female student. She feels uncomfortable going to learn from him because of the things he has done, jokes, groping, and offers of things. I wont go into detail, but she has no reason to lie about it. I dont know her! She infact wont go unless X and I are going for a lesson. She will be quitting here soon though, I believe at the end of the month.

...and how did you find out about these things? from other students? is there one student of his that is happy and non-molested?

My problem is not with his teaching, or how he has treated me, its how I see him treat others. Those who have been there longer than me. And I feel that by me giving him money each lesson, I am directly or indirectly supporting that. With that, more suggestions please.

I can understand your frustration here...still...be very, very careful about what you assume to be true.

Also - your profile states you are a sifu/instructor in a chinese art. Which one and just out of curiosity, why did you decide to study Kenpo?

 

[FasterthanDeath]

sorry shsulsa, didnt mean to confuse you, I am paying my teacher on a lesson to lesson basis. X is paying him the same. X is not my teacher. X is my friend. I am taking Kenpo because of its simplicity and of its scientific nature. It also seems to have movements that are vary natural to me. And I dont know of one student who is happy. Anything else?

 

[Zepp]

And I dont know of one student who is happy.

Well that says it all, doesn't it?

It could be that your perception is a bit skewed on this matter because you yourself are not happy, but that's not really important. If you're not happy with your instructor, and it doesn't seem like you will be happy, you don't really need us to tell you what to do, do you?

 

[Nightingale]

I've learned that when you get a "bad vibe" about people, its that your subconscious is noticing something about them or making connections regarding many little details that your conscious mind may not quite grasp yet.

Every single time I've gotten a bad vibe about someone and given them a chance despite my gut feeling, they've always, consistently, done something that proved me right.

your "bad vibe" is your intuition talking. Listen to it.