futsaowingchun
Black Belt
Two of the most important techniques in one simple drill !!
Pak Sao/Lop Sao
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Danny T
Senior Master
Hmm..., if he paks and maintains the line when you lop as shown you are crossing the line. All he needs to do is biu, loy jut or taun with a slight turn to cut your lop arm. If he is just over the line or you move his pak to just over the line your lop works well.
OP
futsaowingchun
Black Belt
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- #3
when I lop his hand his body and structure will be compromised so he wont be able to do any of those things. Of course any technique can be countered there is no perfect techniques.
Danny T
Senior Master
'If' you are able to lop.
Thing is the moment you cross the line all the opponent need do is to biu or loy jut and you will be unable to lop.
When you cross the line you have given the opponent the position to defeat you. If you are faster or stronger yes you can win. But we don't rely on speed and strength but proper movement and position.
When you cross the line (as shown) and the opponent is on the line you've set yourself up for failure.
Thing is the moment you cross the line all the opponent need do is to biu or loy jut and you will be unable to lop.
When you cross the line you have given the opponent the position to defeat you. If you are faster or stronger yes you can win. But we don't rely on speed and strength but proper movement and position.
When you cross the line (as shown) and the opponent is on the line you've set yourself up for failure.
Yeah and maybe that is where the alternative move comes from. I like to call it unorthodox, but from where I am from, is no way near from where you guys come from!
OP
futsaowingchun
Black Belt
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- #6
alot has to do with the energy the person is giving you,so if I cant lop him I will simplemove to another technique. This is only a drill not an actual fighting scenario.
Right get you.
Danny T
Senior Master
Absolutely. Or you will attempt to but having trapped yourself it will be difficult.
Agreed. However should not the drill be performed in the manner that does not create a bad habit. (like crossing the line vs drawing the opponent across the line allowing you to be on the line or, you angling thereby moving the line?
Here's a different approach to Lap Sau. What do you guys think?
Danny T
Senior Master
Geezer, I don't agree with everything he does but I do agree with the approach. We do a lot of the same and this gives some insight into what I mean when I say; We have forms, drills and applications. Application may not look like the forms or the drills.
Bong sao for instance is a deflection and a shoulder butt as well. Same with the side scraping gum sao in SLT.
Bong sao for instance is a deflection and a shoulder butt as well. Same with the side scraping gum sao in SLT.
OP
futsaowingchun
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #11
It depends,In wing chun doesnt the wooden dummy contain movements that are incorect then the next move corrects it? What may seem wrong to you may not be wrong for me..I will use whatever I can get away with. You have to think outside the box.
Danny T
Senior Master
Not in the way we train. But 'if' one were to make a mistake there are moves that will put you back in control or opens the line for you to attack. We also have numerous actions that are specifically not executed in the dummy Form where you go to position but no execution of an attack only the position for control.
I agree that your application of the movement/s and position/s may be different. No problem there.
And that you will use what you can get away with. No problem again
I disagree with your assertion that it is ok to practice breaking the principle and that it is ok. When you do that are you are you still practicing WC? Or, are you practicing something else that is similar.
If a practitioner were practicing in the manner of crossing the line putting themselves in a trapped situation and is unaware or is simply making a mistake but is working to correct that then they are practicing WC. If one were doing so to help their training partner to know and recognize the difference when the opponent crossed the line that again is something different for the practice of the other person. When one purposely practices against the principles simply because one wants and has been able to 'get away' with it knowing it breaks the principles can one still be practicing WC or has what one is practicing now become something else?
Kwan Sau
Purple Belt
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Sometimes its hard to gauge MCM's true skill in his WC because most if not all the vids he posts are slow paced beginner type drills. Personally, I'd love to see Fut Sao wing chun in action, in a more dynamic sort of way.
I guess what I'm saying is we always see him doing videos in what appears to be "teaching mode" to a junior student. From this aspect, its hard to get a good (objective) feel for what he can do. Hope this makes sense(?).
Thanks for posting MCM.
I guess what I'm saying is we always see him doing videos in what appears to be "teaching mode" to a junior student. From this aspect, its hard to get a good (objective) feel for what he can do. Hope this makes sense(?).
Thanks for posting MCM.
Judging from MCM's appearance ....that is to say his evident physical "maturity" I'd guess that he is more in the "coaching" rather than the "competing" stage of life (as am I). So I doubt we will see him posting videos of himself in the cage, etc. That would be just plain nuts. On the other hand, maybe some of his students?
Now make no mistake. I'm not writing off all us geezers. I know a lot of older guys who would be pretty scary if put to the test in a self-defense situation. But none of them fight for sport anymore!
BTW my Saturday Eskrima class members range in age from their late fifties to one who's 83. They just came up with a name for their club: OFS-FMA (OLD FARTS with STICKS). We're currently designing the T-Shirts.
I'm curious how you know what you can get away with and what will work. If you're modifying WC how can you justify that your modifications are good?
It's good to see practitioners share video, I always enough it, you open yourself to a lot of criticism, especially if you don't disable video comments. That being said there's an abundance of WC guys doing instructionals, the martial arts community needs to see WC in action.
I'm just curious if mcm has ever even used his system in real life. Some old guys in martial arts have payed their dues and some only think they have. If you're innovating or improving something you'd better be speaking from personal experience. I'd be very surprised to ever see anything from this guy other than coaching and WC dummy vids.
Kwan Sau
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I guess I shouldn't be surprised that folks automatically assume "cage" and "sport" these days. But no, what I meant was even something simpler...for example: the guy in his pak sao video...I'd like to see MCM say to him "ok, you attack me however you want, with force / speed / aggression etc...and I'll use my MCM WC to deal with it. "
Kwan Sau
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Now that's funny!!! hahaha love it!
OP
futsaowingchun
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #18
i
When learn something its up to you if you want to break it..I can chose to break it if I chose to. Is it WC? I'm a WC fighter that is what I know butI'm not bound to it. How can I express yourself freely if you are bound to rules.rules made up by someone else.
Rules are for bigginers,a guide line to follow to learn,but you should not be a slave to it...IMO
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futsaowingchun
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #19
I'm 51 yrs old now so I'm more into the teaching mode,but I love to mix it up with other people.I'm in NYC if you like to meet up we can do some training...
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futsaowingchun
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #20
simple, experience.I only practice what works for me.
