This from the MARPIO site:
I guess this mean we won't be seeing the Presas' or Worden at the event.
I guess this mean we won't be seeing the Presas' or Worden at the event.
Modern Arnis Symposium, MARRPIO and Datu Worden participation?
- Thread starter Datu Tim Hartman
- Start date
R
Red Blade
Guest
Maybe they are scared of looking bad?
J
Jinile Presas Calpe
Guest
We wish to personally invite Red Blade to attend one of our seminars.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Out of curiosity, could you please tell me why MARPPIO and Datu Worden won't be teaching at the symposium (if that is indeed the case)?
It seems like a great opportunity for those of us on the east coast to see what both Worden and Marppio have to offer. I know that I was looking foward to seeing Marppio and Worden at the symposium, and I will be disappointed if either entity doesn't show.
Respectfully,
PAUL
It seems like a great opportunity for those of us on the east coast to see what both Worden and Marppio have to offer. I know that I was looking foward to seeing Marppio and Worden at the symposium, and I will be disappointed if either entity doesn't show.
Respectfully,
PAUL
R
Red Blade
Guest
Actually, I already attended one of the MARPPIO seminars in North Carolina. I thought you had good energy and were very enthusiastic. I also think you did quite well considering they have not trained with their father in twenty years. I saw a bunch of the old school Modern Arnis along with things I had never seen Professor teach. All in all, I would recommend it to all to try it at least once.
Personally this is not something I would continue doing. My personal journey in Modern Arnis is to continue where GM Presas left off. I think that there are several groups out there that can offer that to me. I don't feel the Presas family can. They have missed twenty years of their father's research and development which would make it very hard for them to know where their father took the system, let alone take it to the next level.
I also find it strange that Rodel Dagooc is at many of the events. I get the impression that he is their safety blanket. If this is the business that the children have chosen to go into they should be strong enough to do this on their own and not bring a baby sitter along to keep them out of trouble. Could it be, that at the symposium, many of the instructors who have been training with the Professor until the final days, may prove how little the MARPPIO group knows?
This is not a threat, challenge or slamfest. This is just my opinion based on my personal observations.
J
Jinile Presas Calpe
Guest
Date: 7/16/2002 - 8:04 AM
Name: Guro Harold Evans (Palusut - MT han
Email: mail_harold@yahoo.com
Site: http://
Location: , NC, USA
Comments: MARPPIO's seminars are incredible!!!! I attended a two-day MARPPIO seminar in Durham, NC last April 2002 and had an outstanding time of training with them. MARPPIO were excellant hosts and were passionate regarding sharing their family art of Modern Arnis. There was an outpouring of information and sweat but the end result was an awesome time of instruction from Remy P. Presas, Demetrio Presas and Senior Master Rodillo Dagooc. Please if you have an opportunity, check them out!
Date: 5/4/2002 - 8:24 PM
Name: Guro Lyndon Johnson
Email: drjohnson@hwarangwarrior.com
Site: http:// hwarangwarrior.com
Location: Mount Olive, North Carolina, USA
Comments: I just attended the Raleigh, NC MARPPIO seminar and it was excellent. The Presas familiy members are well versed in the art of Modern Arnis. The training was intense and impressive. The spirit of the Professor lives on in his children and I am looking forward to training with them again. The advanced level of instruction they have was obvious right away.
Date: 4/28/2002 - 8:36 PM
Name: JUNE
Email: JLEKICKS@AOL.COM
Site: http://
Location: Morrisville, NC, USA
Comments: I really enjoyed the seminar in NC. Even though I had no previous experience in Arnis you all cared that I learn the basic skills required to give me a foundation in stick and knife fighting. I'm sure I will need to become skilled in weapons if I am to succeed as a school owner and instructor in the future, and especially since I plan on starting the police academy this August! I would like to see some techniques from your book, and terminology put on the internet! Thank you for being great role models for aspiring masters.
(taken from marppio guestbook) www.modernarnis.com
Name: Guro Harold Evans (Palusut - MT han
Email: mail_harold@yahoo.com
Site: http://
Location: , NC, USA
Comments: MARPPIO's seminars are incredible!!!! I attended a two-day MARPPIO seminar in Durham, NC last April 2002 and had an outstanding time of training with them. MARPPIO were excellant hosts and were passionate regarding sharing their family art of Modern Arnis. There was an outpouring of information and sweat but the end result was an awesome time of instruction from Remy P. Presas, Demetrio Presas and Senior Master Rodillo Dagooc. Please if you have an opportunity, check them out!
Date: 5/4/2002 - 8:24 PM
Name: Guro Lyndon Johnson
Email: drjohnson@hwarangwarrior.com
Site: http:// hwarangwarrior.com
Location: Mount Olive, North Carolina, USA
Comments: I just attended the Raleigh, NC MARPPIO seminar and it was excellent. The Presas familiy members are well versed in the art of Modern Arnis. The training was intense and impressive. The spirit of the Professor lives on in his children and I am looking forward to training with them again. The advanced level of instruction they have was obvious right away.
Date: 4/28/2002 - 8:36 PM
Name: JUNE
Email: JLEKICKS@AOL.COM
Site: http://
Location: Morrisville, NC, USA
Comments: I really enjoyed the seminar in NC. Even though I had no previous experience in Arnis you all cared that I learn the basic skills required to give me a foundation in stick and knife fighting. I'm sure I will need to become skilled in weapons if I am to succeed as a school owner and instructor in the future, and especially since I plan on starting the police academy this August! I would like to see some techniques from your book, and terminology put on the internet! Thank you for being great role models for aspiring masters.
(taken from marppio guestbook) www.modernarnis.com
Jinile, Red Blade:
I stand by my endorsement for everyone to attend a MARPPIO seminar but this is not my beef.
Red Blade, Rodel is one of the highest ranked belts under the Professor and he is highly respected. If he is dedicating his time to help MARPPIO get off the ground, then that is a matter of MARPPIO.
Jinile, sharing my personal endorsement does not address Red Blade's concerns, please address them specifically if you choose to do so.
Palusut
I stand by my endorsement for everyone to attend a MARPPIO seminar but this is not my beef.
Red Blade, Rodel is one of the highest ranked belts under the Professor and he is highly respected. If he is dedicating his time to help MARPPIO get off the ground, then that is a matter of MARPPIO.
Jinile, sharing my personal endorsement does not address Red Blade's concerns, please address them specifically if you choose to do so.
Palusut
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
The MARPPIO comments are really secondary to the thread. I have not seen the group in action, although I am hoping that my work schedule allows me to attend the next seminar offered in my area.
I think the question is have MARPPIO and/or Datu Worden withdrawn from Jerome Barber's Symposium, if so why, and if so what are the implications for the event.
I think the question is have MARPPIO and/or Datu Worden withdrawn from Jerome Barber's Symposium, if so why, and if so what are the implications for the event.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
I don't think Red Blade ment any disrespect towards Rodel, but I think he ment it as more of a critique against MARRPIO.
I want to make the point that I think everyone should respect people for rank/titles that they have attained. I have never met Rodel, but I respect his rank. Same goes for Datu Worden and MARRPIO. I respect their rank/title/status, and opinions for that matter. I will not, however, say that anyone of them are any good. One can ASSUME that they are good, but until I watch them play and teach, and even feel the technique for myself I can't say anything (good or bad) about their skills.
Unfortunitally I don't have the time or the funds to travel the world to see what every M.A. teacher and eskrimador has to offer. Give it a few years before it'll be feasable. That is why the symposium, or something like it would be a good way to see some of the groups/people that I don't get to see. Plus, it will be easy to compare arnisadors when they are all teaching at the same event.
Since my question, or Red Blades question hasn't been answered clearly yet, I am starting to wonder myself if Red Blades conjecture isn't at least somewhat valid (the conjecture being that some of the invited instructors may not show, or ever show to an event like the symposium bacause they fear comparison).
Could someone please explain, and prove the conjecture wrong if it is?
Thank You,
PAUL
Hi Paul,
I think the point of Red Blade's criticism was not directed toward Rodel, but to the children, but that is from my perspective.I don't think that it was Red Blade's intent to disrespect Rodel and I don't think that he did so. I was answering to the critique of how much Rodel assisted them.
Again, Jinile and MARPPIO are the best at answering that, if they choose to do so.
Hi Arnisador,
I cannot answer for MARPPIO but from participating at their seminar and from working out and hanging out with them afterward, it appeared to me that their main emphasis currently is to re-introduce the basic fundamentals of Modern Arnis. To teach and to train as it used to be. Their next focus is on their version of tapi-tapi which they had not shown to the public at that time.
MT Adminstrators:
I agree with dearnis that this current topic is second to main topic. Should this be spun off?
Best regards,
Palusut
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
Paul wrote:
"Unfortunitally I don't have the time or the funds to travel the world to see what every M.A. teacher and eskrimador has to offer. Give it a few years before it'll be feasable. That is why the symposium, or something like it would be a good way to see some of the groups/people that I don't get to see. Plus, it will be easy to compare arnisadors when they are all teaching at the same event."
My view differs a little bit. Depending on the day of the week the symposium promotions give it the air of a well-coordinated grudge match. I am not sure that I wouldnt rather hold judgement on some folks until I can see them teach on their own turf in their comfort zone.
I have seen instructors who I greatly respect on the mat where they felt they had something to prove; the experience was never as enjoyable as when the same instructors were teaching in a more positive environment. I am not sure that I need the Pepsi challenge to evaluate instructors; I can spend one or two days with someone, know what I think, and if I would go back.
Now I admit that I am somewhat spoiled because of where I live; my only issues with most seminars are "can I get the day off" and "is guro joe blow worth 25/45/65/90/ whatever of x number of hours."
That leads to my other reservation about the symposium; my job severely limits the amount of days off I can take in the summer and I can not even confirm those days off until a very late date. With the preregistration fee schedule that pushes the cost level to a point where I am really not interested in spending the money, particularly with underlying air of challenge I see developing.
While I can't speak for the instructors involved I think there is certainly an alternative explaination to Red Blade's.
(note that there is no endorsement or criticism, actual or implied, of Datu Worden and/or MARPPIO; I have zero mat time with either party).
Chad
"Unfortunitally I don't have the time or the funds to travel the world to see what every M.A. teacher and eskrimador has to offer. Give it a few years before it'll be feasable. That is why the symposium, or something like it would be a good way to see some of the groups/people that I don't get to see. Plus, it will be easy to compare arnisadors when they are all teaching at the same event."
My view differs a little bit. Depending on the day of the week the symposium promotions give it the air of a well-coordinated grudge match. I am not sure that I wouldnt rather hold judgement on some folks until I can see them teach on their own turf in their comfort zone.
I have seen instructors who I greatly respect on the mat where they felt they had something to prove; the experience was never as enjoyable as when the same instructors were teaching in a more positive environment. I am not sure that I need the Pepsi challenge to evaluate instructors; I can spend one or two days with someone, know what I think, and if I would go back.
Now I admit that I am somewhat spoiled because of where I live; my only issues with most seminars are "can I get the day off" and "is guro joe blow worth 25/45/65/90/ whatever of x number of hours."
That leads to my other reservation about the symposium; my job severely limits the amount of days off I can take in the summer and I can not even confirm those days off until a very late date. With the preregistration fee schedule that pushes the cost level to a point where I am really not interested in spending the money, particularly with underlying air of challenge I see developing.
While I can't speak for the instructors involved I think there is certainly an alternative explaination to Red Blade's.
(note that there is no endorsement or criticism, actual or implied, of Datu Worden and/or MARPPIO; I have zero mat time with either party).
Chad
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Palusut: Point well taken. In regards to "their version of Tapi-Tapi" which has not been made public, it was suggested to me by more then one source that they don't actually know a version of Tapi-Tapi. That they hadn't been active in so long that they seriously don't know it; and that they'll hash together some sort of contemporary version at a later date.
Please understand that I'M not suggesting that this is the case at all because I have never seen them, so I really can't say. It is just what I have heard. Like what you had said, it's up to MARRPIO to clear the air on that.
dearnis: I see your point and agree that a head butting contest is not the best circumstance to see an instructor, but at least it is a circumstance to see them period, which I have yet to have.
One thing that has been bothering me about Red Blades comments is this: There was supposed to be a "Filipino Brotherhood" seminar in October (I believe) which would have featured MARRPIO, as well as other Modern Arnis and Filipino martial artists. It was not a "prove yourself" seminar by any means. The seminar was cancelled, and I had heard that part of the reason was because MARRPIO had backed out of the seminar. I only remember this because I had wanted to go to that seminar myself, particularly to see them. I remember looking at the MARRPIO schedule and not seeing any other events that would have prevented them from going to the Filipino Brotherhood seminar.
And now here is the symposium, of which it doesn't look like they'll be attending. Same with Datu Worden.
Granted, there could of been other circumstances involved, so I am not saying for sure whether or not Red Blade's suggestion is true or not, but givin the circumstance I am seriously beginning to wonder what is up.
And please, everyone understand that I really mean no disrespect at all so please don't take it the wrong way.
I would, however, like Jinile (or one of our many readers who can speak for MARRPIO or Datu Worden) to say something regarding the matter. Not only would it save me the trouble of a personal e-mail or call, but it would put to rest many concerns, I think.
:asian:
Please understand that I'M not suggesting that this is the case at all because I have never seen them, so I really can't say. It is just what I have heard. Like what you had said, it's up to MARRPIO to clear the air on that.
dearnis: I see your point and agree that a head butting contest is not the best circumstance to see an instructor, but at least it is a circumstance to see them period, which I have yet to have.
One thing that has been bothering me about Red Blades comments is this: There was supposed to be a "Filipino Brotherhood" seminar in October (I believe) which would have featured MARRPIO, as well as other Modern Arnis and Filipino martial artists. It was not a "prove yourself" seminar by any means. The seminar was cancelled, and I had heard that part of the reason was because MARRPIO had backed out of the seminar. I only remember this because I had wanted to go to that seminar myself, particularly to see them. I remember looking at the MARRPIO schedule and not seeing any other events that would have prevented them from going to the Filipino Brotherhood seminar.
And now here is the symposium, of which it doesn't look like they'll be attending. Same with Datu Worden.
Granted, there could of been other circumstances involved, so I am not saying for sure whether or not Red Blade's suggestion is true or not, but givin the circumstance I am seriously beginning to wonder what is up.
And please, everyone understand that I really mean no disrespect at all so please don't take it the wrong way.
I would, however, like Jinile (or one of our many readers who can speak for MARRPIO or Datu Worden) to say something regarding the matter. Not only would it save me the trouble of a personal e-mail or call, but it would put to rest many concerns, I think.
:asian:
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Hi Folks,
I see that Kelly is hosting Roland Dantes after committing to the Symposium. Well, committments do change. As to MARPPIO's not attending, Demetrio Presas told me himself he will be attending as he will be making that time his vacation time and he will be there for one day as he is vacationing with his family.
Yours,
Dan Anderson
I see that Kelly is hosting Roland Dantes after committing to the Symposium. Well, committments do change. As to MARPPIO's not attending, Demetrio Presas told me himself he will be attending as he will be making that time his vacation time and he will be there for one day as he is vacationing with his family.
Yours,
Dan Anderson
Just a note - I think (may be wrong) that the issues here are intertwined, and for now, can be left in 1 thread...though the thread should perhaps be renamed to : Modern Arnis Symposium, MARRPIO and Datu Worden participation?
But thats my uneducated opinion... Please, those in the know, feel free to how to best handly/split this correctly. Or, feel free to spin off a new thread.
:asian:
But thats my uneducated opinion... Please, those in the know, feel free to how to best handly/split this correctly. Or, feel free to spin off a new thread.
:asian:
L
Lunumbra
Guest
This kind of thread, who knows what, how long did they train with the Professor, what did they learn as opposed to what someone else learned five years previously or five years later.........
IS PRECISELY WHY DOCTOR B IS SETTING UP THE SYMPOSIUM IN THE FIRST PLACE! All this typing in the forums isn't going to prove anything. There have been a lot of opinions stated, well stated. But not many of us know any of the others personally. Without some personal knowledge of the forumites posting hear, how much stock can any of us really put in an opinion expressed here. The symposium is set up so that students of the Professor can compare notes on what they learned at different times of the Professor's teaching. Only if you show up, will you REALLY learn anything, about Arnis, or the people who show up.
I'm a TOTAL beginner in Arnis, but I'm going. This is an opportunity that is simply to good to pass up. It would be a shame if anyone who was a direct student of the Professor's decided they couldn't come.
IS PRECISELY WHY DOCTOR B IS SETTING UP THE SYMPOSIUM IN THE FIRST PLACE! All this typing in the forums isn't going to prove anything. There have been a lot of opinions stated, well stated. But not many of us know any of the others personally. Without some personal knowledge of the forumites posting hear, how much stock can any of us really put in an opinion expressed here. The symposium is set up so that students of the Professor can compare notes on what they learned at different times of the Professor's teaching. Only if you show up, will you REALLY learn anything, about Arnis, or the people who show up.
I'm a TOTAL beginner in Arnis, but I'm going. This is an opportunity that is simply to good to pass up. It would be a shame if anyone who was a direct student of the Professor's decided they couldn't come.
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
"I'm a TOTAL beginner in Arnis, but I'm going. This is an opportunity that is simply to good to pass up. It would be a shame if anyone who was a direct student of the Professor's decided they couldn't come."
This is what I personally disagree with. I am not knocking the idea, nor am I saying don't go. If the event fits your schedule, finances, and so on, wonderful.
I have trained with the majority of the presenters; I have my opinions which are based on more than observing a 1-2 hour block of instruction.
As to those I haven't seen; well it appears that at least two groups will not be respresented.
Is this a great opportunity; yes it is. Is attending the only way I will "learn ANYTHING, about arnis, or the people who show up"? That is a stretch.
respectfully.
Chad
PS Have to agree with Paul; the thread is evolving into something other that what it started as.
This is what I personally disagree with. I am not knocking the idea, nor am I saying don't go. If the event fits your schedule, finances, and so on, wonderful.
I have trained with the majority of the presenters; I have my opinions which are based on more than observing a 1-2 hour block of instruction.
As to those I haven't seen; well it appears that at least two groups will not be respresented.
Is this a great opportunity; yes it is. Is attending the only way I will "learn ANYTHING, about arnis, or the people who show up"? That is a stretch.
respectfully.
Chad
PS Have to agree with Paul; the thread is evolving into something other that what it started as.
What is this an east coast Vs west coast spitting contest again? Have you considered what it would cost for the Presas family and Datu Worden to fly out and stay in a hotel, rent a car, eat in restaurants? Loss of income for the week from their normal jobs? Any body offering to subsidize their costs?
Consider that they can come to Tacoma for a long weekend, share their knowledge, be treated like family with much respect, earn enough to pay expenses, have a great time and go home with a surplus$$ and much satisfaction.
I personally know they have much knowledge to share and that they have a deep background in Tapi Tapi, maybe a different approach than you are used to but isn't that what we are after and hunger for is putting all the different pieces together?
Doesn't Datu Hartman have a different style from the MOTTS? How about Sr Master Dan Anderson? you know he is going to have a style of his own, I know Datu Worden has his uniqueness. Wouldn't that be true of all the leaders in Modern Arnis? Isn't that what made Modern Arnis so valuable was ability to work it in with your existing foundation? An Art within your Art?
The Presas family are the heirs to the system, MARRPIO is the official recognized Modern Arnis organization by the Phillipino Government. The highest ranked Modern Arnis Sr Masters like Rodillo and Roland Dantes endorse the family as the heirs. Doesn't any of that mean anything to you people? Further they don't claim the Grandmaster title and the older generation will never claim it!
That doesn't mean they are trying to take over anybody else's system within the umbrella of Modern Arnis, quite the contrary, they just want to share and encourage growth of Modern Arnis!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are very good people, very talented and more than willing to spread the art.
Please show respect for the family!
George Hoover
Northwest, USA
Consider that they can come to Tacoma for a long weekend, share their knowledge, be treated like family with much respect, earn enough to pay expenses, have a great time and go home with a surplus$$ and much satisfaction.
I personally know they have much knowledge to share and that they have a deep background in Tapi Tapi, maybe a different approach than you are used to but isn't that what we are after and hunger for is putting all the different pieces together?
Doesn't Datu Hartman have a different style from the MOTTS? How about Sr Master Dan Anderson? you know he is going to have a style of his own, I know Datu Worden has his uniqueness. Wouldn't that be true of all the leaders in Modern Arnis? Isn't that what made Modern Arnis so valuable was ability to work it in with your existing foundation? An Art within your Art?
The Presas family are the heirs to the system, MARRPIO is the official recognized Modern Arnis organization by the Phillipino Government. The highest ranked Modern Arnis Sr Masters like Rodillo and Roland Dantes endorse the family as the heirs. Doesn't any of that mean anything to you people? Further they don't claim the Grandmaster title and the older generation will never claim it!
That doesn't mean they are trying to take over anybody else's system within the umbrella of Modern Arnis, quite the contrary, they just want to share and encourage growth of Modern Arnis!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are very good people, very talented and more than willing to spread the art.
Please show respect for the family!
George Hoover
Northwest, USA
C
Corey Minatani
Guest
Hi everyone:
Just a note from one of Datu Worden's Students. The following is purely my point, does not represent Datu's, but may help.
First of all, Datu Worden does have quite a busy schedule, to date he is currently working on two books and has a contract with the ARMY to train special forces soldiers 3 days a week. I know he's on vacation on Hawaii, and has arrangements to do seminars there, so even when he takes time for the family, its coupled with work.
Second of all, who ever is putting on the symposium should be where the questions should be addressed to as to "is Datu Worden coming or not." There might be some financial things such as airfare or hotels and things of that such that are usually taken care of for high caliber instructors such as Datu Worden. I seriously cant see Datu flying in, finding his own hotel, work for free (martial artists who are married know some wives dont care what and who the seminar is for, what does it pay? Although I know Datu's wife, this is probably not the case, as for me, yes!). In any scenario for instructors, there are such things as overhead to observe.
Third, why can't there be two symposiums? One on the east and west sides? I know SM Dan Anderson commited to doing a tribunal of sorts with Datu Worden and Professor Trigg. Maybe some of the other guys at this symposium can email Datu W. for info and teach? I'm sure Datu will be very accomodating. But I think shooting this thought or that among the forum without talking to Datu or MARPPIO group is just blowing hot air. Email almost takes nothing to do, and Datu is very approachable and his email is posted everywhere. You can also email me as well, and I can forward it, just include real name, please.
Corey Minatani
:asian:
Just a note from one of Datu Worden's Students. The following is purely my point, does not represent Datu's, but may help.
First of all, Datu Worden does have quite a busy schedule, to date he is currently working on two books and has a contract with the ARMY to train special forces soldiers 3 days a week. I know he's on vacation on Hawaii, and has arrangements to do seminars there, so even when he takes time for the family, its coupled with work.
Second of all, who ever is putting on the symposium should be where the questions should be addressed to as to "is Datu Worden coming or not." There might be some financial things such as airfare or hotels and things of that such that are usually taken care of for high caliber instructors such as Datu Worden. I seriously cant see Datu flying in, finding his own hotel, work for free (martial artists who are married know some wives dont care what and who the seminar is for, what does it pay? Although I know Datu's wife, this is probably not the case, as for me, yes!). In any scenario for instructors, there are such things as overhead to observe.
Third, why can't there be two symposiums? One on the east and west sides? I know SM Dan Anderson commited to doing a tribunal of sorts with Datu Worden and Professor Trigg. Maybe some of the other guys at this symposium can email Datu W. for info and teach? I'm sure Datu will be very accomodating. But I think shooting this thought or that among the forum without talking to Datu or MARPPIO group is just blowing hot air. Email almost takes nothing to do, and Datu is very approachable and his email is posted everywhere. You can also email me as well, and I can forward it, just include real name, please.
Corey Minatani
:asian:
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