Military drone pilots to get medals?

[Makalakumu]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...to-get-medals/2012/07/09/gJQAF2PhYW_blog.html

The Pentagon is considering awarding a Distinguished Warfare Medal to drone pilots who work on military bases often far removed from the battlefield.


Pentagon officials have been briefed on the medal’s “unique concept,” Charles V. Mugno, head of the Army Institute of Heraldry, told a recent meeting of the Commission of Fine Arts, according to a report in Coin World by our former colleague Bill McAllister.


Mugno said most combat decorations require “boots on the ground” in a combat zone, but he noted that “emerging technologies” such as drones and cyber combat missions are now handled by troops far removed from combat.
The Pentagon has not formally endorsed the medal, but Mugno’s institute has completed six alternate designs for commission approval.

Thoughts?

 

[Big Don]

It is certainly something that is going to have to be addressed. Should a drone pilot's contributions be overlooked merely because of his location?
Should bomber crews who fly over an area at 40000 feet be lauded? What about crewmen on a carrier 100 miles out to sea?

but Mugno’s institute has completed six alternate designs for commission approval.

They ought to look twoards the British DFC, that thing is HIGH Visibility... ours is much more subdued.

 

[Tez3]

It is certainly something that is going to have to be addressed. Should a drone pilot's contributions be overlooked merely because of his location?
Should bomber crews who fly over an area at 40000 feet be lauded? What about crewmen on a carrier 100 miles out to sea?
They ought to look twoards the British DFC, that thing is HIGH Visibility... ours is much more subdued.

Is that a criticism of the DFC something which you have to do something quite out of the ordinary to win and whose holders are some of the most distinguished and brave servicemen and women there are?

 

[Big Don]

Is that a criticism of the DFC something which you have to do something quite out of the ordinary to win and whose holders are some of the most distinguished and brave servicemen and women there are?

Not in the least. On the contrary, if you are going to decorate servicemembers, by God, make the decoration Beautiful and BRIGHT.
Our military awards aren't too aesthetically pleasing, and they should be.

 

[Tez3]

Not in the least. On the contrary, if you are going to decorate servicemembers, by God, make the decoration Beautiful and BRIGHT.
Our military awards aren't too aesthetically pleasing, and they should be.

Ah, true enough. About 260 Americans were awarded the DFC in World War 2, the medals are worth around $7000 they reckon in monetary terms, though they should be priceless to the recipents, famlies and descendants.
One woman has been awarded it so far http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-heroic-helicopter-rescue-mission-Basra.html

 

[sfs982000]

I don't think that the drone pilots efforts should be over looked and they should be recognized for their contributions/efforts. Of course I do agree that there has to be a clear process as to how those awards are approved and handed out.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There is a National Defense Ribbon that is awarded to all servicemen during time of war. That is all that they require or deserve. If they stand no chance of eating hot lead, they have not performed any manner of heroics. No risk, no medal.

What they're doing is considering the future career prospects of these remotely-piloted drones and thinking that no one is going to want to be one if it means their chest is bare of medals in the next 20 years, whilst they compete with real pilots and other war heroes for promotions in a smaller military. A smart career person would reject any assignment that does not put them in harm's way or garner them a chest full of medals during time of war - they simply won't be promoted going forward, so no career. I see what they're trying to do here, but I think it's ********.

 

[cdunn]

There is a National Defense Ribbon that is awarded to all servicemen during time of war. That is all that they require or deserve. If they stand no chance of eating hot lead, they have not performed any manner of heroics. No risk, no medal.

What they're doing is considering the future career prospects of these remotely-piloted drones and thinking that no one is going to want to be one if it means their chest is bare of medals in the next 20 years, whilst they compete with real pilots and other war heroes for promotions in a smaller military. A smart career person would reject any assignment that does not put them in harm's way or garner them a chest full of medals during time of war - they simply won't be promoted going forward, so no career. I see what they're trying to do here, but I think it's ********.

Bull, yes, but the bull is apparently centered on the military's promotion structure. While I inherently agree with you, I wish you good luck in making it right.

 

[oftheherd1]

There is a National Defense Ribbon that is awarded to all servicemen during time of war. That is all that they require or deserve. If they stand no chance of eating hot lead, they have not performed any manner of heroics. No risk, no medal.

What they're doing is considering the future career prospects of these remotely-piloted drones and thinking that no one is going to want to be one if it means their chest is bare of medals in the next 20 years, whilst they compete with real pilots and other war heroes for promotions in a smaller military. A smart career person would reject any assignment that does not put them in harm's way or garner them a chest full of medals during time of war - they simply won't be promoted going forward, so no career. I see what they're trying to do here, but I think it's ********.

I can agree with much of what you say. Drone pilots are from what I hear, very much liked by the combat arms. But so are helicopter pilots and crew. And they are where there are likely to be bullets. I might see a ribbon for a certain length of assignment, or number of missions 'flown,' as opposed to an actual medal, with perhaps bronze service stars for subsequent same length assignments or missions.

But I haven't convinced myself that is proper. I agree medals and ribbons simply to enhance promotion possibilities of people who don't go to combat zones is a little cheap. Especially since it is usually very easy to volunteer and go to a combat zone. Still, it seems every war brings out rear area types that know the lessons of the last war as far as promotions. There was a one year time frame in Vietnam that produced something like seven campaigns.

I see troops come back from Iraq and Afganistan with what appears to be an awful lot of decorations. But I am not ready to put them down too quickly either. I see some of them come back with six and eight bars for six months combat zone service each bar. Some of them have put in a lot of time in a combat zone(s).

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I can agree with much of what you say. Drone pilots are from what I hear, very much liked by the combat arms. But so are helicopter pilots and crew. And they are where there are likely to be bullets. I might see a ribbon for a certain length of assignment, or number of missions 'flown,' as opposed to an actual medal, with perhaps bronze service stars for subsequent same length assignments or missions.

But I haven't convinced myself that is proper. I agree medals and ribbons simply to enhance promotion possibilities of people who don't go to combat zones is a little cheap. Especially since it is usually very easy to volunteer and go to a combat zone. Still, it seems every war brings out rear area types that know the lessons of the last war as far as promotions. There was a one year time frame in Vietnam that produced something like seven campaigns.

I see troops come back from Iraq and Afganistan with what appears to be an awful lot of decorations. But I am not ready to put them down too quickly either. I see some of them come back with six and eight bars for six months combat zone service each bar. Some of them have put in a lot of time in a combat zone(s).

I have full respect for anyone who has served in harm's way. But if a person is a REMF or a POG who did not risk being killed in any way, shape, or form, they don't deserve a medal for courage - IMHO. We need people at the rear as well as grunts and pilots, no doubt. But let's not pretend that the guy flying a drone is liable to end up executed by the Taliban on the six o'clock news.

 

[Steve]

I'm with Bill. I'm proud of my service, but I'll be the first to admit that as an AMMO troop, I was not exactly in harm's way, even when deployed to the Persian Gulf. My job was to ensure that the bombs and missiles our fighters carried functioned as designed. It was our pilots who put their lives on the line.

There's a big difference between that and my brother, who was a door gunner in Operation Just Cause, and then with the 101st during Desert Storm.

I was eligible for all of the normal medals and such (like Achievement or Commendation medals), but I would never suggest that I did anything worthy of any recognition for valor or heroism.

 

[oftheherd1]

I have full respect for anyone who has served in harm's way. But if a person is a REMF or a POG who did not risk being killed in any way, shape, or form, they don't deserve a medal for courage - IMHO. We need people at the rear as well as grunts and pilots, no doubt. But let's not pretend that the guy flying a drone is liable to end up executed by the Taliban on the six o'clock news.

I agree with that. But that is one reason I was giving thought to a ribbon rather than a medal, even though not all medals are for heroism. It might be more appropriate for a badge, such as a marksmanship badge.

Steve - if you were in the Air Force and even went to the gulf area, I salute you. I know a retired Air Force man who seems to have gone to great lenghts to avoid getting assigned to any part of that area of the world. He was lamenting that he was told if he only spent one day there he could have gotten more benefits and decorations. He figured he could have taken a flight in one evening, and left promptly the next day. Disgusting in my opinion.

In the Army, one had to spend at least 30 days to wear a combat patch, or combat badge (CIB), or get benifits for assignment to a combat area (unless medivaced sooner). Does that sound right, only one day in a combat area? Or was he misinformed?

 

[Rich Parsons]

In the Gulf War aka ODS (* Shield and Storm *), the Navy gave out an award (medal) for those who served on ships in the theater even if they never saw any action. A friend of mine called his , "The CNN Medal". He watched the action on TV while he did his job and made sure his men did their job.

 

[Tez3]

Here's ours http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mos...medal-Britains-military-awards-explained.html

I have the GSM (Northern Ireland) . My other half also has that and the South Atlantic medal as well as Long Service and Good Conduct ( RAF)

 

[Steve]

I agree with that. But that is one reason I was giving thought to a ribbon rather than a medal, even though not all medals are for heroism. It might be more appropriate for a badge, such as a marksmanship badge.

Steve - if you were in the Air Force and even went to the gulf area, I salute you. I know a retired Air Force man who seems to have gone to great lenghts to avoid getting assigned to any part of that area of the world. He was lamenting that he was told if he only spent one day there he could have gotten more benefits and decorations. He figured he could have taken a flight in one evening, and left promptly the next day. Disgusting in my opinion.

In the Army, one had to spend at least 30 days to wear a combat patch, or combat badge (CIB), or get benifits for assignment to a combat area (unless medivaced sooner). Does that sound right, only one day in a combat area? Or was he misinformed?

Honestly, I have no idea. I wasn't ambitious, so I didn't pursue any kind of overt recognition. I was content to travel as much as possible and enjoy myself.

I was there for 6 months, but full disclosure, I worked at a bomb dump in Abu Dhabi, pretty far away from anything. Also, I was there from October, 91 to April 92, so most everything was finished. We were doing 100% inspection on all of the munitions because they were very poorly managed during combat (things like fuses packed in sand and multiple stages of an explosive chain stored in the same building.) During the heavy fighting in Desert Storm, I worked largely at the rail head in Morbach, Germany loading munitions onto trains that were headed eventually into the combat theater.

I have no valor medals or anything. I have a SW Asia Service Medal, 2 overseas short tours and one overseas long tour, along with a single Achievement medal and a few miscellaneous ribbons. Not too bad for a single term enlistment.

In contrast, my brother has all sorts of medals and they're all well deserved. I have several other family members who have earned various medals for valor. My great uncle was actually awarded the Distinguished Service Cross. A true hero, there.

Ultimately, I have no problem with medals for serving in a particular theater, regardless of job. The SW Asia Service Medal got me discounts on tuition in college and is my ticket into the VFW someday. But there is a clear distinction between a medal that documents one's service in a particular theater, and a medal that documents acts of particular valor.

 

[Josh Oakley]

There is a National Defense Ribbon that is awarded to all servicemen during time of war. That is all that they require or deserve. If they stand no chance of eating hot lead, they have not performed any manner of heroics. No risk, no medal.

What they're doing is considering the future career prospects of these remotely-piloted drones and thinking that no one is going to want to be one if it means their chest is bare of medals in the next 20 years, whilst they compete with real pilots and other war heroes for promotions in a smaller military. A smart career person would reject any assignment that does not put them in harm's way or garner them a chest full of medals during time of war - they simply won't be promoted going forward, so no career. I see what they're trying to do here, but I think it's ********.

What if it were more on the level of an ARCOM or an MSM? these don't necessarily designate combat service. They can be awarded for non-combat missions. And it would be able to show their contributions to the mission.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[oftheherd1]

What if it were more on the level of an ARCOM or an MSM? these don't necessarily designate combat service. They can be awarded for non-combat missions. And it would be able to show their contributions to the mission.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Sorry, that doesn't work for me. ARCOMs and MSMs are for commendation for a job very well done or exceptionally well done. The fact that a drone pilot is only doing the job he was trained to do doesn't qualify for me. The more I think of a badge like sharpshooter the more I like it. I don't even like the idea of a badge like the parachute badge or even air assault. Give them a badge for so many successful flight missions, and hang it off the pocket flap.

 

[celtic_crippler]

The Pentagon is considering awarding a Distinguished Warfare Medal to drone pilots who work on military bases often far removed from the battlefield.

So playing video games all those years may actually pay off in a real-life medal?!

I neither support nor oppose this, but if they're going to be fair then they need to consider making "job-specific" medals for everyone. Even the ammo loaders, cooks, and so on.

Actually, being an ammo loader is a much more life threatening job if you think about it...

Just throwin' that out there.

 

[seasoned]

Sorry, in a big hurry. This was on my mind this morning.
Anybody in the military deserves what ever they are allotted. Over the years the fighting person has lost respect, funding, and very short handed for the job they are required to do. The looming reward in this day and age is the loss of body parts.
I served so I can thak on years ago, and my son serves now so I can talk.......

Thanks for your service

 

[oftheherd1]

Sorry, in a big hurry. This was on my mind this morning.
Anybody in the military deserves what ever they are allotted. Over the years the fighting person has lost respect, funding, and very short handed for the job they are required to do. The looming reward in this day and age is the loss of body parts.
I served so I can thak on years ago, and my son serves now so I can talk.......

Thanks for your service

As a big sweeping over-simplification, I can sort of support that. But where it falls down for me in the discussion in this thread is that there is a difference between those who serve in a combat zone and those who don't (especially when they make job or assignment choices to lessen or prevent them being in a dangerous area). Then in a combat zone, there is a difference between those who are engaged in actual combat, or at least may be unexpectedly, and those who sit in large combat support bases with little to no expectation of having enemy fire directed at them. But at least many of those are probably more subject to ememy action.

And to be fair, where do the drone pilots work from? I don't know. I have heard both in the zone of operations, and safely tucked away hundreds or thousands of miles from any enemy danger. Is it both, or only one? And are they authorized theater medals, such as for service in Afganistan? A Navy tanker crewman serving off-shore who never saw Iraq, but supported the operations of its carrier task force, and maybe even Afganistan operations, probably qualified for ribbons for those actions. Perhaps that is the answer for the drone pilots even if they aren't in theater. But I think I am still more in favor of a badge like a marksman badge, with certain qualifications needing to be met to continue wear, or successful completion of a certain amount of missions.

I think the military has tended to gain more respect in an all volunteer military in recent years. But one way to loose respect is to be seen as trying to gain award of medals and ribbons that are not deserved, especially those for valor, or service in combat areas.

BTW, for what it is worth, you are to be commended for your service to your country, and your son as well. You are more to be respected for keeping your chin up where your son is concerned. My daughter was in the only combat arm open to women for the last Iraqi conflict. She was deployed to Turkey, which didn't bother me much. When it looked like her unit would be deployed to Israel, I was more concerned. Hang tough sir!

Just my thoughts.