Michael Moore

[Baytor]

So right now, Moore is on his "Slacker Uprising Tour". It is to register and encourage college kids to vote. I think this is a great thing he is doing. We do need to get more people involved. Now, I have a question for everyone. Is Michael Moore a hypocrite? Here is why I ask.

During these stops, when people register he gives them ramen noodles and underware. This is against the law, you can't give people anything of value in exchange for voting. Sure, it's only ramen and underware, and what college student couldn't use both of those items, but isn't it also a slippery slope? If it's "ok" to give away that this year, what about next time around? Moore made millions of dollars off a film in which he says that the sitting president's actions are illegal or unethical (? didn't see it, guessing). Is it appropriate for him to just break "a little law"?

To quote Moore:
"I give the guys a 3-pack of new Fruit of the Loom underwear, and the women get a day’s supply of Ramen noodles, the sustenance of slackers everywhere.
I then close by having them repeat the 2004 Slacker Oath: “Pick nose! Pick butt! Pick Kerry.”

So, what do you all think? Is he just trying to register people to vote, or is he being, in the least, unethical?

 

[bignick]

whether or not he's unethical...i don't know why the conservatives are concerned about this (there's a lawsuit pending)....if someone is at a micheal moore rally they're probably not a Bush supporter and weren't going to vote for him in the first place....

and sure as heck wouldn't be influenced by underwear and ramen:barf:

 

[Baytor]

Hey Nick,

I agree that the lawsuit is just silly, and that most people won't (or at least shouldn't) be influenced by ramen and underware.
My real contention here is that this guy made a lot of money talking about how other people are unethical, and then is involved in questionable activity himself.

 

[D_Brady]

During these stops, when people register he gives them ramen noodles and underware. This is against the law, you can't give people anything of value in exchange for voting. Sure, it's only ramen and underware, and what college student couldn't use both of those items, but isn't it also a slippery slope? If it's "ok" to give away that this year, what about next time around?

They could just as easily take the items and vote for Bush, the stuff I believe is for those who register, what they do when their alone in the booth is still up to them.

 

[heretic888]

i don't know why the conservatives are concerned about this (there's a lawsuit pending)....

Same reason the Fox News nutjobs tried to sue Al Franken for using the term "fair and balanced".

For whatever reasons, this particular brand of conservatives (as contrasted by the moderate and civil types like John McCain) cannot tolerate the very existence of any political dissidence. Just take a look at the string of personal attacks and character assassinations that have followed anyone that has ever opposed the Bush administration for any reason --- even going as far as allowing a leak into the media that revealed the identity of an active CIA agent...

... which, by the way, is an act of treason.

These guys just can't stand the very existence of people that disagree with them. Very recently, the Bush administration sent their "attack squad" throughout the networks to criticize two words that Kerry used in the first presidential debate (which were, of course, part of a +60 word explanation).

This is a very predicatable trend of this administration. It really shouldn't surprise anyone; it certainly doesn't surprise me.

Laterz.

 

[Jay Bell]

I agree that the lawsuit is just silly, and that most people won't (or at least shouldn't) be influenced by ramen and underware.

Let me preface this by saying I don't want to turn this into another F-9/11 post...

You're absolutely right. Ramyen and Underware doubtfully will influence anyone...however, Michael Moore sure as hell will. Boatloads of people (one of my roomates included) believed a film hook, line and sinker without doing any research after the fact....based on Moore's handywork.

Take your average, liberal college student who's seen F-9/11 (let's face it...if it's in a movie, it's gotta be real, right?)...then the guy shows up handing goods out...a'might convincing to those who don't know better.

 

[michaeledward]

Jay Bell, you aren't arguing that people should not be allowed to vote, are you?

One of the great things about our democracy, at least in its current evolution, is that there is no litmus test to be eligable to vote. It makes no difference if one has chosen to education themselves or not. If one is 18 years of age, and a United States citizen, they can vote. And they should. Doesn't matter if they know anything at all about the candidates or not.

Bring 'em on!

 

[Jay Bell]

If I had, I would have said, "I don't think liberals that pay too much mind to Moore should vote."

 

[rmcrobertson]

Let me see if I've got the logic being deployed here right: George Bush and Tom DeLay fidddle about with Texas law (three of De Lay's henchmen are presently under indictment; Bush somehow got a sweetheart deal with the state and used taxpayer money to fund his investment in the Texas Rangers); the President gets us into what turns out to be an unjustified war with Iraq; we go from a 2 trillion surplus to an enormous deficit, and a movie maker's handing out ramen bowls and fresh underpants to college students is the problem.

Personally, I mainly pay attention to Moore because he's much funnier than, say, that lumphead Dennis Miller--did you catch Moor showing up with a camera crew outside a Moscow missile silo, and demanding, "to see the one that's aimed at Flint, Michigan?" did you catch him showing up outside the Aryan Nations compound in Idaho and deploying a truckload of assorted chics in bikinis, big speakers, and an enormous banner declaring "NATIONAL INTERRACIAL LOVE DAY," before they hit the Motown full blast?

I also pay attention to Moore because, for all the midea attention, he retains this wacky, old-fashioned carl Sandburg-level belief in democracy and, "the people, yes, the people..." but you newfangled, pseudo-progerssive, corporatist shills ain't never heard of that there commie, Carl Sandburg, have ye?

Arrrrrrr...avast, ye swabs. Heave to with the boat of capitalist apologetics.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Suing them over Ramen and underwear? All he was really doing was getting people registered to vote, right? As long as he wasn't deliberately favoring one party over the other, I dont see what they have to sue over.

Incidentally, isn't he kinda late? I live in Florida, and heard on the radio that some day last week (I think it was Wednesday) was the last day to register to vote in time for the 2004 elections. Maybe I'm missing something...

Arrrrrrr...avast, ye swabs. Heave to with the boat of capitalist apologetics.

Well, can't find the "rolls eyes" smiley, so I'll go with this one instead :uhyeah:

 

[Ceicei]

Suing them over Ramen and underwear? All he was really doing was getting people registered to vote, right? As long as he wasn't deliberately favoring one party over the other, I dont see what they have to sue over.

To quote Moore:
"I give the guys a 3-pack of new Fruit of the Loom underwear, and the women get a day’s supply of Ramen noodles, the sustenance of slackers everywhere. I then close by having them repeat the 2004 Slacker Oath: “Pick nose! Pick butt! Pick Kerry.”

Sounds like favorism right there....

- Ceicei

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Ok, but was he only registering democrats? Or making republicans pay to have him register them? No.

 

[MA-Caver]

I agree that the fact he's encouraging voting is a great thing. Passing out underwear and ramen noodles could be construded as bribing or "buying votes". If someone were to decide to take it that way. And in this day and age it wouldn't be surprising.
Underwear and ramen noodles? Hmm, someone needs to step out and look at the bigger picture of that and see what's the message.
Sure Moore hates Bush and sure he's going to try and encourage folks NOT to vote for him. It seems to me that Moore is smart enough to know that he's not going to sway anyone from their intended or (would be intentional) voting preference by using two (tongue in cheek) items such as underwear and ramen.
It would be the same as for me passing out lemon flavored Starburst fruit chews and saying vote for Kerry because the country seems to have soured on Bush-isms.
Moore is coming to "my town" soon. I don't have tickets (wish I did) to hear him speak (Utah Valley State College) but if I were to meet him and he dropped the line
Pick Nose, Pick Butt .... I'd probably interject right at the moment he'll say Pick K- and jump in with "NONE OF THE ABOVE!". Which is what I'll be voting for anyway.
IMO What Moore is doing isn't a crime nor unethical. Everyone has the right to encourage someone to vote for their favorite candidate. The fact that he's encouraging voting is a lot better than if I were trying to get folks to not to vote.
Mebbe I'm wrong with that idea and maybe I'm being a hypocrite by saying he's doing a great thing by encouraging voting while I'm saying not to, but am I any more wrong than Moore?

 

[Phoenix44]

When a political party's strategy includes discouraging voter registration and interfering with voting, I'd say that even they realize that they have something serious to worry about in their candidates and policies.

I'd be A LOT more concerned about Ohio's Sec'y of State trying to disqualify voters because of the thickness of their registration paper, delaying registration of Florida voters who checked "Democrat" as their desired party affiliation, and about paperless voting machines made by a company that pledged to "deliver the votes to the president."

 

[Jay Bell]

Moore calls on 'slackers' to vote

Filmmaker exchanges barbs with hecklers here

C.T. REVERE and ROMANO CEDILLOS
Tucson Citizen

Tony Post (middle) gives a high-five to one of his buddies as he is kicked out of McKale Center during Michael Moore's speech. Campus security officers escorted a number of people for becoming too rowdy.
Filmmaker Michael Moore brought his political road show to the University of Arizona last night, asking "slackers" to help oust President Bush while sparring with chanting Bush supporters in the crowd.
"Fifty percent of this country does not vote. Do you think it's the rich and powerful who don't vote? No! It's the poor, the disenfranchised and the young," Moore told a McKale Center capacity crowd of nearly 15,000. "We want to try and convince you to vote."

Moore plied nonvoters to support Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry by offering packages of underwear and Top Ramen noodles, "the sustenance of slackers everywhere."

"People say they're not interested in politics. Well, politics is very interested in you," he said. "Politics wants to make your life very miserable."

Moore, whose film "Fahrenheit 9/11" has just been released on DVD after being a box-office hit, is on a 60-city tour of swing states hoping to help get Kerry into the White House.

Arizonans shouldn't be so quick to assume a Bush victory in the state, he said, noting that polls giving Bush an edge in the state fail to consider new voters and mostly young voters who aren't contacted because they only use cell phones.

"And I think they underestimate how many people are going to vote," he said. "We have some very important issues at stake here, and we have to remove George W. Bush from the White House. The issues boil down to one thing for me: this illegal and immoral war in Iraq."

Bush supporters, including members of the College Republicans, who objected when the Associated Students of the University of Arizona agreed to pay Moore's $27,000 fee, chanted, "Four more years!"

"It's funny that Republicans are usually good at math. They're off by four years. It's only three more weeks," Moore quipped. "They're upset because they no longer represent the majority viewpoint in this country. Be nice to them. Feel their pain."

Police escorted several rowdy Bush supporters out of the arena.

Pete Seat, state president of the College Republicans, said the protesters did Moore a favor.

"I think Moore enjoyed it," he said. "We were helping him with the show."

Moore's banter included a few frustrated profanities aimed at the hecklers.

"Try to look at this election as our attempt to save you from your dumb-*** ways, my Republican brothers and sisters," he said.

Moore, who was joined on stage by pop singer and Tucson native Linda Ronstadt, showed mock campaign ads lampooning the Swift boat veterans' ads that attempted to discredit Kerry's war record, and read letters from soldiers in Iraq who don't support the war.


Photos by RENEE BRACAMONTE/Tucson Citizen

Supporters of the Bush-Cheney ticket rally outside McKale Center to support Republicans and protest the appearance of Michael Moore.
The White House and conservative Republicans are out of step with most America, Moore said.
"A majority of Americans don't want assault weapons on the streets," he said. "The majority of Americans want strong environmental laws, not weaker ones. The majority of Americans want women to be paid as much as men. And they spent many years teaching us how to treat minorities, right?"

Moore's visit created a carnival atmosphere outside McKale Center.

Flagstaff resident Dan Frazier, 39, was hoping to cash in by selling anti-Bush stickers.

"Six months ago, I gave up a good job to sell stickers," said Frazier, who wore a makeshift top hat made of stickers. "My motto is 'Walk softly and carry a big sticker.' Of course, the political environment has been good for business, but I don't know yet what I'm going to do when the (election) is over."

Susie Deconcini, 63, a Moore fan and Kerry supporter, said Moore's films raise awareness.

"What's more important is that people have changed their minds on who they're going to vote for after seeing his movie," she said.

Not everyone appreciated Moore's appearance.

"Moore's message is the wrong message to send to our troops. It's not a positive American message," said Deborah Toland, 50, who came to show support for President Bush.

Toland's fellow Bush backer, Deanna Smyth, called Moore "un-American."

"He trashes the United States ... he's a phony and he gets away with it," Smyth said above the beat of bongos played by both Kerry and Bush supporters. "He also calls himself a socialist, but he's getting rich off of this."

During a news conference before the speech, Moore defended his work against those who say he twists the truth.

Supporters of Moore give him a standing ovation during his talk.
"Real journalists have not questioned the veracity of the film. In fact, a number of publications have actually gone through the film with a fine-toothed comb and have not been able to find a single fact wrong in the film,"(LIE) he said, adding that researchers, fact-checkers and lawyers scrutinize each film. Many of the film's purported facts have been disputed, including in a Dick Morris film titled "Fahrenhype 9/11" aimed at "unraveling the truth about "Fahrenheit 9/11" and Michael Moore, according to the Fahrenhype 9/11 Web site.

Greg Fahr, a 55-year-old architect, said he was surprised by the size and enthusiasm of the crowd, which at times was louder than UA basketball crowds.

"He's incredibly intelligent, amusing and just an amazing force in this election time," Fahr said. "I was not even expecting it to be half full. It's just amazing."

Moore, who said his next film project will focus on the health care industry, said he hopes his films, books and personal appearances bring change to the White House.

"If I've convinced just a small percentage of people not to vote for President Bush, that can make the difference," he said.

If Kerry is elected, Moore vows to turn his lens on him.

"The minute John Kerry is elected, my camera is trained on him," Moore said. "That's my job."

 

[heretic888]

In fact, a number of publications have actually gone through the film with a fine-toothed comb and have not been able to find a single fact wrong in the film,"(LIE) he said, adding that researchers, fact-checkers and lawyers scrutinize each film.

Mind explaining how this is a "lie", Jay??

 

[Jay Bell]

Claiming that people have gone through with a fine-tuned comb and saying they haven't found anything wrong is a lie. Plain and simple.

If such a statement was true, these sites combing through and showing the falsities would not exist:

http://fahrenhype911.com/

http://moorelies.com/book/

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

etc etc ad nauseum...

Or could it be that Moore just hasn't heard about it all? Please..

 

[Baytor]

On a related note, I just found this at dave's daily news. It beats ramen and underware!:uhyeah:


Voters offered free striptease
Ukrainian voters are being offered a free striptease in a bid to win their votes for a presidential candidate.

Campaigners for current Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich organised the free striptease shows in the Santa Fe bar in Donetsk hoping they could get people to re-elect their man, local media reported.

One organiser said: "We hope the voters will remember who gave them this show for free when they go to the ballot box."

The elections are scheduled for October 31 and according to polls Viktor Yanukovich has 33 percent of the vote while his opposition candidate Viktor Yushchenko has 31 percent.
http://www.davesdaily.com/

 

[Jay Bell]

I'm so moving. Can't beat perks like that..

 

[Rich Parsons]

I'm so moving. Can't beat perks like that..

Maybe Bob aka Kaith should get a mutual exchange program going with these guys? Then he can go there, and of course he would need a few body guards and then we coudl invite the other candidates from other countries.