Maybe Interesting... maybe not

[Xue Sheng]

I did something today I had not done before in regards to my rather slow progression to better understand Sil Lum Tao. And to be honest I am not sure if it means anything at all.

I did Ba Duan Jin (eight pieces of Brocade), then did some Wuji and Zhan Zhuang standing, waited a few minutes and then did Sil Lum Tao.

It did seem to change the power flow (or at least make it easier to follow) of Sil Lum Tao. I shall have to do this a few more times over the weekend.

Also makes me wonder what would happen if I did stationary Chen style Chan Su Jin before Sil Lum Tao

 

[cwk]

I did something today I had not done before in regards to my rather slow progression to better understand Sil Lum Tao. And to be honest I am not sure if it means anything at all.

I did Ba Duan Jin (eight pieces of Brocade), then did some Wuji and Zhan Zhuang standing, waited a few minutes and then did Sil Lum Tao.

It did seem to change the power flow (or at least make it easier to follow) of Sil Lum Tao. I shall have to do this a few more times over the weekend.

Also makes me wonder what would happen if I did stationary Chen style Chan Su Jin before Sil Lum Tao

Hi,Xue
I often do ba duan jin before SLT, when time permits, and now you mention it, it does feel different to when I don't. Haven't really give it much thought before but I'll have another go at it tonight and get back to you with a better answer.

 

[Vajramusti]

I did something today I had not done before in regards to my rather slow progression to better understand Sil Lum Tao. And to be honest I am not sure if it means anything at all.

I did Ba Duan Jin (eight pieces of Brocade), then did some Wuji and Zhan Zhuang standing, waited a few minutes and then did Sil Lum Tao.

It did seem to change the power flow (or at least make it easier to follow) of Sil Lum Tao. I shall have to do this a few more times over the weekend.

Also makes me wonder what would happen if I did stationary Chen style Chan Su Jin before Sil Lum Tao

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I don't see what Ba Duan Jin or Chan Su Jin has anything to with doing the Sil Lim Tao IF you are doing a good Sil Lim Tao.
joy chaudhuri

 

[cwk]

Okay, so here's what I noticed.

After doing ba duan jin, I felt more relaxed. This is not to say that I'm usually tense but it was slightly different somehow. I think because, for me anyway, Ba Duan Jin really helps me empty my mind and thus the extra say ?% of tension,that is almost physically undetectable as it is all to do with mental state, was gone. It could have something to do with the fact that my breathing was regulated better after doing BDJ.
anyway, just my tuppence.

 

[Vajramusti]

Understand and appreciate both sets of comments. I can and do different things... but for wing chun for me--- ygkym can be my standing post and breathing platform.Thx for sharing

joy chaudhuri

 

[Xue Sheng]

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I don't see what Ba Duan Jin or Chan Su Jin has anything to with doing the Sil Lim Tao IF you are doing a good Sil Lim Tao.
joy chaudhuri

Nor do I.

I am not saying it has anything to do with it only that I found it interesting

I should also add I doubt I am doing good Sil Lum Tao. I am doing this to better understand Sil Lum Tao so eventually I will be doing good Sil Lum Tao

 

[Xue Sheng]

Okay, so here's what I noticed.

After doing ba duan jin, I felt more relaxed. This is not to say that I'm usually tense but it was slightly different somehow. I think because, for me anyway, Ba Duan Jin really helps me empty my mind and thus the extra say ?% of tension,that is almost physically undetectable as it is all to do with mental state, was gone. It could have something to do with the fact that my breathing was regulated better after doing BDJ.
anyway, just my tuppence.

Thank You

I did another form of Qigong before Sil Lum Tao today, it is from my taiji and uses Daoist breathing. It left me very relaxed and very aware of internal powerflows while doing Sil Lum Tao.

I have not yet tried Chan Su Jin before and I don't plan on doing it anytime soon but one of these days I will give it a try.

 

[Vajramusti]

Thank You

I did another form of Qigong before Sil Lum Tao today, it is from my taiji and uses Daoist breathing. It left me very relaxed and very aware of internal powerflows while doing Sil Lum Tao.

I have not yet tried Chan Su Jin before and I don't plan on doing it anytime soon but one of these days I will give it a try.

------------------------------------------------
Thanks for sharing your experience.
joy chaudhuri

 

[KamonGuy2]

Qigong does help improve your SNT greatly (one of our senior instructors teaches seminars on this)

I must emphasise that SNT is a balance. You have to be careful to not be too relaxed. Structure must be maintained (rather than floppy hands etc). When you do things like fook sao, try to pictire yourself holding an object very loosely (like a can of coke)

Ive seen a lot of people doing their forms too 'soggy' in an effort to be really relaxed. Every person is different and the whole point of SNT is to find out more about your own body. Being relaxed helps, but dont feel like you have to be so relaxed that you are sacrificing structure

In wing chun you explore all kinds of different energy, including gung lik which is a harder energy, and sung lik which is a softer energy. Its important to play with both ideas

 

[profesormental]

Interesting.

With your experience, you should have enough information to figure out what movements seem to "flow" better.

That is something I would be interested in knowing.

Here's the thing.

For me, the execution of SLT has changed in very subtle ways to accommodate for very specific and significant increases in power ans stability at the time of application. I even do an "Activated" SLT, which is not in the horse stance (YCKJM).

Thus them details are important.

Thanks for sharing. Internal styles have these little details that when noticed have significant effect on applications.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I tried something external.

I went to my basement and worked out, lifted some weights, no isolation exercises specifically things that worked muscle groups.

Then I did SLT... Not good… Things were tight and the flow was poor, no power in any strikes and little relaxation and when I was done I just felt uncomfortable

This morning I did the Qigong of my Taiji (with Daoist breathing) again before doing SLT and it does seem that I am more relaxed, can better feel the flow of power and it simply feels better. However I did begin to notice that the very first punch is more powerful if you approach it like Xingyiquan, which is to stay relaxed until the last second and then (the best description I can give for now) tense briefly and relax again.

 

[mograph]

However I did begin to notice that the very first punch is more powerful if you approach it like Xingyiquan, which is to stay relaxed until the last second and then (the best description I can give for now) tense briefly and relax again.

This makes sense to me. Relaxation makes acceleration, connection at the moment of impact makes mass and Qigong (in a general sense) keeps everything together and ready to move naturally without hesitation.

 

[wtxs]

I tried something external.

I went to my basement and worked out, lifted some weights, no isolation exercises specifically things that worked muscle groups.

Then I did SLT... Not good… Things were tight and the flow was poor, no power in any strikes and little relaxation and when I was done I just felt uncomfortable

This morning I did the Qigong of my Taiji (with Daoist breathing) again before doing SLT and it does seem that I am more relaxed, can better feel the flow of power and it simply feels better. However I did begin to notice that the very first punch is more powerful if you approach it like Xingyiquan, which is to stay relaxed until the last second and then (the best description I can give for now) tense briefly and relax again.

Which is how any WC technique should be carried out.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Had a thought last night (and this may go a long way in proving my wife’s statement that I am Martial Arts Crazy).

I was thinking about the various forms of qigong and standing training I have done and it hit me that Zhan Zhuang may work really well in combination with something like SLT.

I have not done anything I would call real training with Zhan Zhuang in a while but I started again this morning (10 minutes) and followed that with SLT. All I can say is my root seemed stronger.

The reason I think Zhan Zhuang will work is that first it is a similar stance and second if you are really training Zhan Zhuang (meaning being able to stand for at least 15 or longer) you begin to notice a whole lot of muscular connections from the bottom of your feet to the top of your head and you start to understand how to get energy/force/power from your root to where it needs to go such as a punch in the case of SLT.

I am still going to work with Ba Duan Jin and the Qigong of my Taiji and SLT but I am also back standing in Zhan Zhuang to see if what I think will happen…will happen.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Another note

Last night I did the qigong of my flavor of Yang Taijiquan, did the long form and then SLT.

I have to tell you I have not felt that much internal energy since my days of training the Shandong province Old style Chen form. And after that I did Xingyiquan Wuxing piquan (which I had not done in a while) and another round of SLT after that.

This morning Ba Duan Jin followed by SLT

All 3 rounds of SLT felt incredibly smooth, internally speaking, and the use fajin appers to be getting a bit more clear as it applies to SLT

I am just going to work with this for a while now and not post so much about it since there is not really much new to say

 

[Xue Sheng]

In my work with Sil Lum Tao I saw something, not amazing or earth shattering just something I did notice before do to my low level of understanding due to little training in Wing Chun.

This lead me to this question

In Sil Lum Tao

Bong Sau to Tan Sau to Dai Jeung am I seeing a block and lock and a strike?

 

[zepedawingchun]

When you say lock, are you talking about a joint lock on the wrist? If you wanted to joint lock you could. But then there would be no dai jern. You could use the motion in any way you see fit.

The movement you are talking about can be applied most commonly like this . . . . you're partner or opponent is throwing a punch to you (say right hand punch) in which case you will use a left hand bong sau (if you use your right hand for the bong sau, you will be doing what is called a cross arm bong sau or wrong arm bong sau). That will put you on the out side of their punch. Sticking to their arm, you will transition (or pivot) under their arm to perfrom a tan sau (to keep their energy out and forcing their way into your center with their punchng hand). Now you are on the inside of the arm. From the tan sau, you will then immediately perform the dai jern (lifting palm) as a strike.

While performing the jern, you can pak sau their punching hand with your right hand (from what should have been in a wu sau or guard position) to then prevent their punching hand from pushing it's way into your center. The whole motion is one big transition from bong to tan to strike. It should flow very smoothly from one position to another, not choppy. If you are successful with the jern, then you can follow it up with multiple strikes using both hands (can we say battle punch or chain punching?)

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm talking arm and I would not call it choppy, this is part of what impressed me about the combination I was seeing

And I have no doubt, as is the case with many CMA styles, there are other options

 

[zepedawingchun]

Your bong sau should make and maintain contact with your partner's (opponent's) wrist. If your bong sau is at their elbow, it's better to use a tan with the other hand and strike with what would have been the bong sau hand. It would be hard to joint lock the elbow from a bong. However, if you wanted to to put a lock on the elbow, you could. But it makes little sense to do that. Why waste the energy working up to the elbow or shoulder (creeping that far). If your at the elbow, you're close enough to strike them in the throat or face. Better to do that, then put a lock on the elbow or shoulder.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Your bong sau should make and maintain contact with your partner's (opponent's) wrist. If your bong sau is at their elbow, it's better to use a tan with the other hand and strike with what would have been the bong sau hand. It would be hard to joint lock the elbow from a bong. However, if you wanted to to put a lock on the elbow, you could. But it makes little sense to do that. Why waste the energy working up to the elbow or shoulder (creeping that far). If your at the elbow, you're close enough to strike them in the throat or face. Better to do that, then put a lock on the elbow or shoulder.

What part of my arm would be contacting the opponent’s wrist in bong sau?