Male fear of Working with kids?

[Andrew Green]

More than one in eight men do not volunteer to work with children because they are worried people will think they are a paedophile, a survey suggests.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6709313.stm?lsm

Now, I know I should be surprised at how high that number is, yet I'm surprised how low it is and suspect that in reality it is probably higher.

This is certainly a fear for a lot of people, and is not without reason. Paedophiles are quite the boogie man in modern society. Even the accusation, even if proven false can completely destroy a persons life. It's not surprising that a lot of people just decide it's not worth the risk and avoid kids at all costs.

Have we gone too far in our fear of predators and protection of children?

And for the males, where is the line you draw, would you coach a team as the only adult present? Private lessons? Approach a lost looking child and offer assistance?

Airlines recently got a lot of press for a policy of not sitting unaccompanied minors next to males, but females where ok.

Now I think most people, including those that won't work with kids for this reason, would agree that kids, boys and girls, need strong male role models in there lives, not just females.

Yet we seem to have an environment where if a male forms a bond with a child they are, or at least could feel like they are putting there entire life at risk.

It seems that a lot of people, males in particular, are also to the point of fear where they wouldn't even approach a lost or hurt child to offer assistance for fear of how it might be perceived. At least not with an escort.

 

[Empty Hands]

Have we gone too far in our fear of predators and protection of children?

YES! The whole damn thing has become completely irrational. There aren't any more pedophiles lurking in the bushes now (as a percentage) then there were back in the mythical days when kids rode their bikes everywhere, doors were left unlocked, and fear (except of the commies) didn't exist. Meanwhile, the measures used against sex offenders, such as effective banishment, are un-american IMO.

And for the males, where is the line you draw, would you coach a team as the only adult present? Private lessons? Approach a lost looking child and offer assistance?

I already restrict myself from too much contact with kids, just for the reasons you speak of. I have no wish to ruin my life - which is a shame, because I really like kids and have alot to offer as a mentor and teacher. Although if some poor little kid is bawling in the middle of the sidewalk and no one is helping, then I will, consequences be damned. I haven't lost that much of my humanity. Even then though I would be careful not to hold or touch them, it might look like I was trying to kidnap a crying child.

Once I was playing with some kids of my friends, and they really decided they liked me. One of em tried to give me a kiss and I wouldn't let him - even with my friends I was worried about how it would look.

Airlines recently got a lot of press for a policy of not sitting unaccompanied minors next to males, but females where ok.

Just what do they think is going to happen on a restricted metal tube with 8 people within a foot of you? Have pedophiles become sorcerors now in addition to bush-lurkers?

 

[CoryKS]

I do limit my contact with other people's children. Not out of fear of being mistaken for a predator, but because I simply don't have the patience for it. I was a cub scout den leader for a year and it was insane. "Herding cats" doesn't begin to describe it. But at the time I did not spend a lot of time worrying about whether anything I did was misconstrued because, IMO, if you're doing it right there's nothing to misconstrue.

 

[Nobody]

Well i will say this does it fuel feminist or are the media using it to create enemy's between men an women or even men against feminist, cause there has to be someone pushing the idea that all men are pedophiles, who is push the men are bad thing?

That said just cause i would not want such a thing thrown at me if a young child was standing on train tracks about to get hit by the train all i would do is stand back an yell at them to move. All though, i would run into a house on fire an save whoever was there but that poor kid on the train tracks is just to fair for me to go. Yes, i have went in a house a little kid said that he needed me to save his mom which is all i did was put out the fire with a garden hose, the fire was in the kitchen it was climbing the wall and on the celling.

I hope that did not make any women mad at me!

 

[Andrew Green]

One more thing out of the article that I find troubling:

"We work hard to ensure volunteers are checked by the police, trained and monitored, which we hope encourages men to come forward and helps assuage the public's concern."

Which while I agree with to some extent, sounds a lot like saying that in order to take away fears of being labeled a criminal, they're just going to treat you like one right of the start...

I just don't see extensive backgrounds checks and heavy monitoring of volunteers as a good way to recruit more volunteers...

 

[CoryKS]

One more thing out of the article that I find troubling:

"We work hard to ensure volunteers are checked by the police, trained and monitored, which we hope encourages men to come forward and helps assuage the public's concern."

Which while I agree with to some extent, sounds a lot like saying that in order to take away fears of being labeled a criminal, they're just going to treat you like one right of the start...

I just don't see extensive backgrounds checks and heavy monitoring of volunteers as a good way to recruit more volunteers...

Good point. In fact, I seem to recall hearing about an organization (can't remember which one) that not only did background checks on volunteers, but had changed their policy so that the applicants had to pay for the check! Tell me again why I'm volunteering...?

 

[Nobody]

Yea, glad to say i have never been accused of that, but have been accused of stealing at a job an finally cause i could dissuade there thinking it was time for me to leave that job.

It is hard to get people to listen to you even after someone accuses you they often don't care the idea is set.

 

[Shuto]

I do limit my contact with other people's children. Not out of fear of being mistaken for a predator, but because I simply don't have the patience for it.

Me too. In fact, I thought that's what this thread was going to be about. The predator thing didn't even cross my mind until I read it.

Yes, I'm naive.

 

[Nomad]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6709313.stm?lsm

Now, I know I should be surprised at how high that number is, yet I'm surprised how low it is and suspect that in reality it is probably higher.

This is certainly a fear for a lot of people, and is not without reason. Paedophiles are quite the boogie man in modern society. Even the accusation, even if proven false can completely destroy a persons life. It's not surprising that a lot of people just decide it's not worth the risk and avoid kids at all costs.

Have we gone too far in our fear of predators and protection of children?

And for the males, where is the line you draw, would you coach a team as the only adult present? Private lessons? Approach a lost looking child and offer assistance?

This is very sad indeed. I don't limit my contact with kids, but do make sure that their parents are aware of what we'd be doing and are ok with it... I have two girls of my own, and love to throw them around in the pool (it's a great sport... can go for height, distance, and artistic merit). I've often had other kids come up yelling "Me next!"... and always make them explicitely ask their parent if it's ok first.

Over the past couple of years, I have become more aware of possible situations and making sure I am not in a position where any such opportunity for misunderstanding could arise. It is a shame that people with good intentions have to walk so carefully to avoid the appearance of anything inappropriate because of the aberrant behavior of a very small minority.

 

[Rich Parsons]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6709313.stm?lsm

Now, I know I should be surprised at how high that number is, yet I'm surprised how low it is and suspect that in reality it is probably higher.

This is certainly a fear for a lot of people, and is not without reason. Paedophiles are quite the boogie man in modern society. Even the accusation, even if proven false can completely destroy a persons life. It's not surprising that a lot of people just decide it's not worth the risk and avoid kids at all costs.

Have we gone too far in our fear of predators and protection of children?

And for the males, where is the line you draw, would you coach a team as the only adult present? Private lessons? Approach a lost looking child and offer assistance?

Airlines recently got a lot of press for a policy of not sitting unaccompanied minors next to males, but females where ok.

Now I think most people, including those that won't work with kids for this reason, would agree that kids, boys and girls, need strong male role models in there lives, not just females.

Yet we seem to have an environment where if a male forms a bond with a child they are, or at least could feel like they are putting there entire life at risk.

It seems that a lot of people, males in particular, are also to the point of fear where they wouldn't even approach a lost or hurt child to offer assistance for fear of how it might be perceived. At least not with an escort.

I do not work with children unless there is another adult present.

I agree that strong role models are important.

I do not teach private to children.

If a young adult/teen wishes to take a class, I prefer that one of the adult/parents be present, not for just safety but so they understand what the child is learning.

Have I stopped to offer assistance to children before? Yes. Today, now I do not get to close to them, but ask them if there is someone I should call for help.


A friend a work was a big brother. He had three daughters and was hoping to spend some time with a young male and also make a difference. He stated that I was good with kids why did I not volunteer. I asked about it. Even being divorced was not good enough to get by the first interview. If I was married and we could not have kids that would be ok. If I had kids it would be ok. But being a single male, I was assumed to be a criminal to want to spend time with a child. This event shaped most of the above actions. Before I was a lot more open and willing to work with and for children. Now I limit it to family, and like I said when an adult is present.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I used to feel that way, but I got over it. This because of my sensei. He told me two things when I started working for him about 10 years ago.

Thing one: "I trust you completely with our students. If there's ever some sort of accusation against you, I will support you to the hilt. You've earned that."

Thing two: "If I ever catch you not giving one of our students everything he needs because you're afraid of being accused...well, you're fired."

I really took that to heart. The greatest harm child abusers have done in our culture is to create what is now the second generation of adults who are afraid to touch children.

I took my ball and went home. I pat, hug and wrastle with any student who wants to. I take some basic precautions (no doors on any of my classrooms, exercising good sense if a particular child seems to want the wrong sort of pysical contact, that sort of thing), but I don't let that worry affect my decisions.

If some jackass makes an unfounded accusation, let it come. I have the character witnesses and community reputation to survive it.

It's important to note, though, that I made this decision for myself. I don't expect my staff to make the same decisions, and in fact advise them not to.

 

[Kacey]

The greatest harm child abusers have done in our culture is to create what is now the second generation of adults who are afraid to touch children.

I agree. Two stories:

1) About 13 years ago, when I was getting my teaching certificate, I had a friend who was also in my certification program. He arranged to complete his elementary level internship at the school his daughters attended at the time. One of his daughters - then about 6 - fell down and scraped her knee while he was on the playground, and he cleaned the scrape, kissed it to "make it better" and hugged her. The principal spoke to him later, and told him that there wasn't a big problem, since it was his child, but that there was, in general, no reason for a teacher to ever touch a child, and that unless there was a serious injury the child should be sent immediately to the health aide's office for treatment (serious injury was described as "child is unable to make to the office alone") in which case the office should be called so the health aide could come down with a wheelchair.

2) About 3 years ago, a teacher at my school retired. He had taught band for over 20 years, and one of his reasons for retiring when he did was that he was no longer comfortable standing behind students - even when they were seated - and putting his arms around them to adjust the position of instruments, such as violins and bows, for fear of being sued. He asked if I touched my TKD students, and was surprised when I said that I would physically manipulate them through techniques... but honestly, I'm really careful what I touch when I do that.

 

[Steel Tiger]

This is all very sad. The joy of interacting with children has been taken away from adults generally, and men specifically. There are greater ramifications to all this. Children are now growing up in an environment where adults are too afraid to talk to them, let alone play with them. What sought of adults are they going to be?

There is something very uplifting to sit and watch children playing with each other. The pure, simple joy in life is wonderful. Unfortunately, you simple can't do such a thing anymore. Society's moral watchdogs are so determined to destroy any joy in life. They won't be happy until everyone is miserable and fearful.

 

[Andrew Green]

The greatest harm child abusers have done in our culture is to create what is now the second generation of adults who are afraid to touch children.

Was it the abusers? Or the news agencies creating fear around them?

I don't think child abusers are new, or even much more common now. Just more noise made about them.

 

[Andrew Green]

The principal spoke to him later, and told him that there wasn't a big problem, since it was his child, but that there was, in general, no reason for a teacher to ever touch a child,

That is sad, and IMO almost child abuse. No contact at all is not healthy for children that young. It's like chopping off there hands so that they don't accidentally shoot themselves.

2) About 3 years ago, a teacher at my school retired. He had taught band for over 20 years, and one of his reasons for retiring when he did was that he was no longer comfortable standing behind students - even when they were seated - and putting his arms around them to adjust the position of instruments, such as violins and bows, for fear of being sued. He asked if I touched my TKD students, and was surprised when I said that I would physically manipulate them through techniques... but honestly, I'm really careful what I touch when I do that.

TKD? Try teaching submission grappling without touching anyone :lol:

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Was it the abusers? Or the news agencies creating fear around them?

I don't think child abusers are new, or even much more common now. Just more noise made about them.

That's a valid point, though if the abusers weren't out there, there would be nothing for the media fearmongering jackholes to create fear about.

 

[Andrew Green]

They certainely are out there, but I don't think they are any more common then 25 years ago when the fear wasn't there.

Child abusers are not new, but the intense fear and distancing of adults from children out of fear of accusation is.

Maybe it used to be ignorance, and now we are more aware. Or perhaps we used to be more realistic and now the media has triggered a paranoia response.

 

[Kacey]

They certainely are out there, but I don't think they are any more common then 25 years ago when the fear wasn't there.

Child abusers are not new, but the intense fear and distancing of adults from children out of fear of accusation is.

Maybe it used to be ignorance, and now we are more aware. Or perhaps we used to be more realistic and now the media has triggered a paranoia response.

To a certain extent, yes, and to a certain extent, no. Is child abuse more prevalent today than it was in decades and centuries past? It depends on your definition of "abuse". It was illegal to beat your horse before it was illegal to beat your child; the first child abuse case of a beating resulting in death was based on a law that made it illegal to beat your horse to death.

THE HEALTH OF MOTHERS AND CHILDREN in the
United States has come a long way since 1874 when the Society for the
Prevention of Cruelty to Animals rescued nine-year-old Mary Ellen Wilson
from her abusive foster parents, making her the first child in the United
States to be removed from a home as a result of physical abuse. Although
the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals had been established in
1866 to protect animals from mistreatment, there was no such advocacy
group for children or laws against child abuse. Social awareness brought
about by the case of Mary Ellen led to the creation of the Society for the
Prevention of Cruelty to Children (SPCC) in 1874.

The first reported case occurred in 1874. A New York lawyer named Elbridge Gerry7 was responsible for bringing the courts into the forefront of this issue. A Methodist social worker working in the tenements of New York City discovered a 10-year-old girl named Mary Ellen Wilson. She also discovered that the child's legal custodian physically abused the girl on a daily basis. She further discovered that there was little if anything social services, the church or even the legal system could do to stop it.

At the time this decision was handed down, children were viewed as property - an investment for old age - and most were treated in a fashion we would consider to be abusive, but which was normal for the time. That type of abuse has dropped significantly.

Child sexual abuse is much harder to track. Like rape, child sexual abuse was not discussed - and when it was, the child was as likely to be blamed, if not for the abuse, for the trauma that the discussion brought to the family, as to be treated. Has it increased? Or has the amount of reporting increased, along with the access to things like child pornography? There's really no way to know.

However, greater awareness of such concerns have created an environment that makes it difficult for normal human contact to occur without the fear of being accused of something more - which leads to the male (and less often, but often enough, female) fear of working with kids in any environment that might require physical contact, a loss to an entire generation that is likely to perpetuate itself into the future.

 

[Ceicei]

This is one of the greatest tragedies of society, when people are made to be fearful of each other and to show less affection/caring. Human beings thrive on this affection/caring; it is what makes us human. Unfortunately, as already mentioned, there are some that seek to take advantage of this for their own selfish and twisted gain.

I refuse to reject good male and female role models of various ages for my children, both within and outside of my extended family. One of the reasons I truly respect my instructor was that he loved children. He understood them. He also took pains to make sure that everything he does with them is above board and in sight of parents. Besides my instructor, I also surround myself with other good friends who I feel comfortable and fits in with my family.

I also made sure that my children understood what is appropriate and what is not. I make sure the line of communication remain open between my children and me. I talk to them often and take a lot of parent/child time just to relax and listen. We've talked about almost everything under the sun, including subjects that could be considered taboo. I would truly hope that because of this type of communication, they will feel free to express their concerns. I also watch for their behavior because often concerns are expressed first that way.

Rant coming:

How can anyone in society learn how to show friendship affection or sorrow in comforting others outside the family if they are not allowed to learn how to appropriately express? Have we gone so far as to be so "cold" that in some places, even a pat on the back is frowned and considered suspect? I could go on and rant, but I think you know what I mean.

- Ceicei

 

[Andrew Green]

To a certain extent, yes, and to a certain extent, no. Is child abuse more prevalent today than it was in decades and centuries past? It depends on your definition of "abuse". It was illegal to beat your horse before it was illegal to beat your child; the first child abuse case of a beating resulting in death was based on a law that made it illegal to beat your horse to death.

Which leads to something else. I'm quite sure that child abuse, when it happens, is far more common from parents and other family members, or close friends. Yet they aren't where the fear lies.