Lower belts keep kicking me in the groin. Need advice.

Dirty Dog

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Sport is only the path. Combat should be the goal.
Meh. There's nothing wrong with sport for sports sake. But you have to be honest with yourself about what you're doing. If you're training purely for sport, your effectiveness in a self defense situation will be better than someone completely untrained, but not as good as someone who trains for self defense.
 
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ThatOneCanadian

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Meh. There's nothing wrong with sport for sports sake. But you have to be honest with yourself about what you're doing. If you're training purely for sport, your effectiveness in a self defense situation will be better than someone completely untrained, but not as good as someone who trains for self defense.
I actually have to agree with you here, especially as a former Tang Soo Do practitioner (which is of course a much more self-defense oriented art in many ways). But should sport and self-defense training not be separate, not to mention have much different ways of training?
 

Dirty Dog

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I actually have to agree with you here, especially as a former Tang Soo Do practitioner (which is of course a much more self-defense oriented art in many ways). But should sport and self-defense training not be separate, not to mention have much different ways of training?
I don't think so, no. Because they're not all that different. I can teach a student to use a throw to put someone on the ground, or cause injury. Same throw, slightly different applications. I can teach them kick a certain way to make it difficult to stay on your feet, or to damage the knee. Same strike, different applications.
And in either case, I'd be sure they learned how to protect their groin.
 

JowGaWolf

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I should elaborate that my school does sport Karate, aka what you see in the Olympics. And to my knowledge, most fighting sports do not permit groin kicks during sparring. In fact, I believe that such a technique is severely discouraged in most dojos.
For me, sport or defense, it wouldn't make a difference. Getting kick in the groin happens with sports martial arts as well. Seem like it would be a good idea to learn how do techniques and defense in a way that doesn't get your groin kicked. Even if you aren't ready for the kick, your stance should offer some protection.
 

JowGaWolf

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And in either case, I'd be sure they learned how to protect their groin.
could you imagine someone saying that they don't train on making a proper fist because it's just "sports martial arts". I've heard my teachers say many times things like "Your feet are too far apart, someone is going to kick you in the groin."

I could see this coming a mile away, simply by his stance.

If I had to bet money. The reason he gets kick in the groin so much is because of how he's delivering his kicks. Some people catch kicks with there face. Other like to catch it with their groin.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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There's nothing wrong with sport for sports sake.
Why does one want to stay in sport forever? In a Judo forum, when I suggested Judo guys should train no-Gi, Everybody was mad at me.

I have no issue to see a 20 years old who is interested in sport. That person is using sport to develop certain MA skill. I have issue to see an old person who is still interested in sport (such as old people doing Taiji push hand).


After I have involved in Sanda, I'm just not interested to treat Chinese wrestling as a sport. I don't mind to train sport when I was young. I just don't want to continue in sport when I get older.

You just can't stay in elementary school forever and refuse to graduate.
 
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jmf552

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I'd give the lower belt one admonition not to do that anymore. Next time, I'd give him a taste of his own medicine. Nothing like painful experience to increase awareness.
 

isshinryuronin

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I should elaborate that my school does sport Karate, aka what you see in the Olympics. And to my knowledge, most fighting sports do not permit groin kicks during sparring. In fact, I believe that such a technique is severely discouraged in most dojos.
This is what differentiates traditional Okinawan karate from what is widely seen in today's sport oriented karate. Not only in the limitation of techniques, but in the apparent loss of the concept of controlled focus which allows for stopping the strike at "kiss" contact. This lack of mastery over one's technique has maybe contributed to the rules limiting certain strikes.

Forty or fifty years ago when targeting the groin was OK there were very few injuries to that area. This was because the students were taught control as part of their training which allowed them to choose where to stop the strike, whether an inch away from the body, or an inch into the body. Those who demonstrated a lack of this skill were penalized. A high level of skill was expected at the black belt level then. Perhaps, too, there was an unwritten "guy" rule to respect each others "valuables."
 

seasoned

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This is what differentiates traditional Okinawan karate from what is widely seen in today's sport oriented karate. Not only in the limitation of techniques, but in the apparent loss of the concept of controlled focus which allows for stopping the strike at "kiss" contact. This lack of mastery over one's technique has maybe contributed to the rules limiting certain strikes.

Forty or fifty years ago when targeting the groin was OK there were very few injuries to that area. This was because the students were taught control as part of their training which allowed them to choose where to stop the strike, whether an inch away from the body, or an inch into the body. Those who demonstrated a lack of this skill were penalized. A high level of skill was expected at the black belt level then. Perhaps, too, there was an unwritten "guy" rule to respect each others "valuables."
Great point, it was never a pulling of the technique but a full powered strike with distance control. The 60s dojo didn't use protective gear...
 

Rich Parsons

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This is honestly what I needed to hear, i.e. whether or not this was a good part of training or an issue that needed to be fixed. I'll try to work with this from now on and basically treat lower belts as if they're Muay Thai champions. (not being sarcastic)

To assist get yourself some shin guards and also wear those for sparring.
It still hurts, wen you use your shin to block their kick versus your knee.

You did not mention you thought it was intentional, as I have seen this before as well.
A lower belt just doing it because it hurts others and they "Win" and feel better.
If this is the case, at all , then talk to an instructor so they can talk to the student.

I know you didn't ask about this in particular, I just offer it up as some experience I have had and also to talk to people.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I actually have to agree with you here, especially as a former Tang Soo Do practitioner (which is of course a much more self-defense oriented art in many ways). But should sport and self-defense training not be separate, not to mention have much different ways of training?
Not necessarily. Some sport training is a good path to self-defense effectiveness, even where the ruleset used may create some holes from a self-defense perspective. But many of the same training methods work for both.
 

KenpoMaster805

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I recommend you to wear your groin cup and dont expect lower belt to be flexible. Just tell them to kick you above the belt like in the stomach so the next time they wouldnt hit ya in the groin
 
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ThatOneCanadian

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To assist get yourself some shin guards and also wear those for sparring.
It still hurts, wen you use your shin to block their kick versus your knee.

You did not mention you thought it was intentional, as I have seen this before as well.
A lower belt just doing it because it hurts others and they "Win" and feel better.
If this is the case, at all , then talk to an instructor so they can talk to the student.

I know you didn't ask about this in particular, I just offer it up as some experience I have had and also to talk to people.
Ah, no, there is a misunderstanding; it is 100% of the time a complete accident, and last time it happened we were very understanding with each other. I attend a very high class dojo where any malicious contact would basically never go.

I suspect the problem here is that lower belts want to "test out" a wide array of techniques when sparring, rather than just throwing a reliable technique that they're comfortable with. I notice plenty of times, a fresh white or yellow belt will attempt something like a spinning back kick or tornado kick without really knowing how to correctly/quickly throw it, and it becomes clear that they're doing this to either impress the sensei or just experiment with new stuff. It's almost as if they have "run out" of techniques to throw 30 seconds into a match and they feel obligated to mix things up, if that makes sense.

Keep in mind that I am in no way denouncing lower belts nor their curiosities, nor am I upset at them in any way; many these individuals are new to fighting and want to play around with new techniques, even if they aren't quite ready for them yet. In my case, this usually presents itself in the form of kicks that end up inadvertently juicing my jewels. :)
 
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