Line Drills

[wingerjim]

Just curious how many schools out there perform WC Line Drill during class? In case you call them a different term, a line drill in my school means we use the WC step (~90% of the weight on the back foot and shuffle forward) while doing various arm movements such as single or double punch, block and punch, chop and punch, bui jui, etc.

 

[DanT]

Yes, we usually spend 15-30 minutes on line drills, such as the following:

-jab, jab, back leg round kick
-backfist, side kick
-1,2, double front kick
-jab, front kick, side kick
-1,2, hook kick, round kick
-tan da, double punch
-gan da, double punch
-and many more, usually we go for 60-100 reps for each set of techniques.

-we keep 60% of the weight on the back foot though, not 90%.

-these combos we try to apply in sparring

 

[Danny T]

Beginners to intermediates yes.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

~90% of the weight on the back foot and shuffle forward.

90% weight on the back foot is too conservative. That stance is too short and the base is too small. To use 30%-70% (shorter stance) or 40%-60% (wider stance) distribution is more proper.

 

[ShortBridge]

We do things like that.

 

[geezer]

90% weight on the back foot is too conservative. That stance is too short and the base is too small. To use 30%-70% (shorter stance) or 40%-60% (wider stance) distribution is more proper.

Many Wing Chun,Wing Tsun, Ving Tsun branches use just such a heavily back weighted stance. 90%-!0%, even 100%-0% (although that is a bit of an exaggeration). If they can make it work, how is this not "proper"? For me you have to look at such things from a cost vs. benefit perspective. A heavily back weighted stance carries with it certain risks, but also offers benefits.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Many Wing Chun,Wing Tsun, Ving Tsun branches use just such a heavily back weighted stance. 90%-!0%, even 100%-0% (although that is a bit of an exaggeration). If they can make it work, how is this not "proper"? For me you have to look at such things from a cost vs. benefit perspective. A heavily back weighted stance carries with it certain risks, but also offers benefits.

The PRO and CON for 10%-90% weight distribution are

PRO:

- Your opponent has less chance to sweep you.
- You leading leg is ready to kick.
- Your leading leg is ready to step back.
- ...

CON:

- If you want to punch, you have to shift weigh on your leading leg.
- Your base is too small.
- It's easy for your opponent to run you down.
- ...

In general, the

- less weight that you have on your leading leg, the more conservative you are.
- more weight that you have on your leading leg, the more aggressive you are.

40%-60% - larger base.

30%-70% - smaller base.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just curious how many schools out there perform WC Line Drill during class? In case you call them a different term, a line drill in my school means we use the WC step (~90% of the weight on the back foot and shuffle forward) while doing various arm movements such as single or double punch, block and punch, chop and punch, bui jui, etc.

Not a Wing Chun student but we do similar drill in our school where we shuffle in our foot work. Sometimes it's only the footwork while holding our hands in a guard position and other times we practice offensive and defensive techniques while shuffling. One of the drills I have students doing is to shuffle in one direction where we are either shuffling forward or backwards. For example, I should be able to shuffle heading North facing north then turn and face south while still shuffling North. We train to fight multiple attackers within a 260 range and our footwork has to reflect that.

 

[geezer]

The PRO and CON for 10%-90% weight distribution are

PRO:

- Your opponent has less chance to sweep you.
- You leading leg is ready to kick.
- Your leading leg is ready to step back.
- ...

CON:

- If you want to punch, you have to shift weigh on your leading leg.
- Your base is too small.
- It's easy for your opponent to run you down.
- ...

In general, the

- less weight that you have on your leading leg, the more conservative you are.
- more weight that you have on your leading leg, the more aggressive you are.

Good analysis as always John, but as you yourself state (see bolded text above), you are speaking "in general" when you say that:

1. ...if you want to punch, you have to shift your weight on your leading leg.
2. ... the less weight on the leading leg, the more conservative/less aggressive you are.

While often true --certainly these concepts apply to many martial arts, including the escrima I train -- they don't apply very well to the WT/VT I practice.

Specifically regarding point no. 1 above: you can punch quite effectively without shifting your weight onto your front leg. In the WT/VT I train we use other methods including rotation, and also linking the punch with moving up the rear foot to put our body force into our punches.

Now regarding point no. 2: "In general" we are strongly back-weighted, but also quite aggressive, using constant forward intent, preferring offense to defense and close range interaction. In fact we often find ourselves having to chase down other fighters who, although using front-weighted stances and who therefor, according to your generalizations, should be the aggressors.

The problem here is that WT/VT is a little bit of an oddball among martial arts. It breaks a lot of generalizations, even among TCMA. On the other hand, it doesn't really contradict those generalizations, it just solves the problems presented a little differently.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

I am not a practitioner of Wing Chun, but my art does have a stance similar to what you are describing, called a hu gul jaseh, that distributes weight to the back leg more than the front. We use it mostly fro retreating or defensive kicks (like ahneso phakuro cha ki). This allows the ability to run while still being able to protect yourself against incoming attackers. I do not know if it serves the same function in Wing Cung.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

and also linking the punch with moving up the rear foot to put our body force into our punches.

If you want to move up your rear foot, you have to shift weight to your leading leg first.

 

[wingerjim]

The PRO and CON for 10%-90% weight distribution are

PRO:

- Your opponent has less chance to sweep you.
- You leading leg is ready to kick.
- Your leading leg is ready to step back.
- ...

CON:

- If you want to punch, you have to shift weigh on your leading leg.
- Your base is too small.
- It's easy for your opponent to run you down.
- ...

In general, the

- less weight that you have on your leading leg, the more conservative you are.
- more weight that you have on your leading leg, the more aggressive you are.

40%-60% - larger base.

30%-70% - smaller base.

Your point about needing to shift weight to the front foot to punch is not accurate for WC. We learn to be able to punch just as effectively with weight back in order to have 3 available weapons most of the time. In order to use ones body for power behind the punch, we move the whole body forward behind the punch, essentially doing the same as a western boxer would do but still maintaining structure and power. As for the con of an opponent running us down, that is when we turn and deflect their energy to the side. or we sidestep them and attack their center from the side as is done very much during wooden dummy training.

 

[Danny T]

If you want to move up your rear foot, you have to shift weight to your leading leg first.

Sure but then as geezer stated the punch happens on the rear foot as it is grounded along with hip rotation, body displacement, and forward driving elbow.

 

[geezer]

If you want to move up your rear foot, you have to shift weight to your leading leg first.

Not so much as you might think! In the WT I trained, we learned a method of advancing while keeping our weight primarily on the rear leg, almost like dragging a sled. It also used a lot of adduction and core strength. Easy to demonstrate, not so easy to describe.

 

[anerlich]

Sure but then as geezer stated the punch happens on the rear foot as it is grounded along with hip rotation, body displacement, and forward driving elbow.

Xingyi works a bit like that as well, but not identically.

I use a 50/50 stance and falling step to attack, but, realistically, TWC does use a fair amount of back leg weighting during transitions, CK, and the dummy.

I am not convinced the back weighted stance necessarily leads to significantly faster or more powerful kicks. If you can make it work, more power to you.

 

[DanT]

Not so much as you might think! In the WT I trained, we learned a method of advancing while keeping our weight primarily on the rear leg, almost like dragging a sled. It also used a lot of adduction and core strength. Easy to demonstrate, not so easy to describe.

You mean the zombie walk?

 

[geezer]

View attachment 20421
You mean the zombie walk?

No, that's me getting up to go to work in the morning. I mean the back weighted drag-step (a shuffle with the same foot leading, not an alternating or "passing" step). Check the video below at 9:00-9:25 for an idea: