Let that be a lesson to you...

7starmantis

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Here I found what appears to be a karate school hosting some drunken kung fu guys for sparring. While they are playing by the karate rules, it seems the kung fu guys lack intent....maybe they should spend more time on fighting? IT looks like they fall into the category of those who fool themselves into thinking they can fight with what they do, but never train that way. It looks like they had some good techniques and skill, but lacked intent or the skill to apply it on resisting opponents.

Karate vs Drunken

7sm
 

Flying Crane

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I think you are probably correct in your assessment of this, but I would like to add a thought as well. The whole point of Drunken Boxing was to fool your attacker into thinking you are drunk and unstable, then using this deception to launch a surprising and decisive counter attack. When two people face off like this, then know that nobody is drunk, so the deception is moot. At this point, to play drunk makes no sense and leaves one vulnerable. I think this is a misapplication of the whole drunken boxing concept.
 

yipman_sifu

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Remember that those challenges are hosted by the Karate school, they will definitely shows you how they beat other competitors for gaining reputation, same goes for the Gracie challenge a couple of years ago:) (It's marketing issues).
 

green meanie

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Flying Crane said:
The whole point of Drunken Boxing was to fool your attacker into thinking you are drunk and unstable, then using this deception to launch a surprising and decisive counter attack. When two people face off like this, then know that nobody is drunk, so the deception is moot. At this point, to play drunk makes no sense and leaves one vulnerable. I think this is a misapplication of the whole drunken boxing concept.

I gotta say, although I can appreciate the origin of this particular style and the strategy behind it, I just can't imagine using it. Don't get me wrong, I've seen some amazing demonstrations of the art, and I'm all for being deceptive and setting your attacker up. But 'I'll fake him out by pretending I'm drunk' just isn't a plan I would EVER want to run with. No offense. :asian:
 

mantis

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green meanie said:
I gotta say, although I can appreciate the origin of this particular style and the strategy behind it, I just can't imagine using it. Don't get me wrong, I've seen some amazing demonstrations of the art, and I'm all for being deceptive and setting your attacker up. But 'I'll fake him out by pretending I'm drunk' just isn't a plan I would EVER want to run with. No offense. :asian:
well if you go back to the origin you will realize that it's all about 'faking'. in this case there is no faking. the karate guy already knows youre not drunk, and this is your style of fighting. this fight lacked the basics of kung fu of closing gaps, sticking and sensing. the drunken guy did not use any opportunity to get closer, and if this fight went by the kung fu rules intead of karate then this fight would still be going on to this moment! there's no way the kf guy could have ended the match, or even got a shot.
and that is why we see 1 or a couple of drunken forms as a maximum per style, out of like 40 or 80 in some styles!
I have seen this video about a year ago before i joined KF. i argued with my teacher about this the day i was signing up. i said if i keep kicking there's no way for you to get closer and use your hands. i thought that's how KF is. (he proved me wrong that day... but thats not the point)
 
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7starmantis

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I dont think the core principels of drunken techniques is really foolery. While its deffinitely an advantage and could most assuredly be the reason for its inception, I dont think the trickery is the main tool in the arsenal of a drunken kung fu fighter. To say taking away the guise of drunkenness renders the system useless is a gross oversimplification of the principels behind the style. There are many principels of drunken such as relaxed movement, close fighting, support your weight on the opponent, etc. I think the kung fu guys simply lacked experience with making technique work on resisting opponents. All to often this is a trap kung fu guys flal into. Especially the whole "to dangerous to spar" idea. They get so caught up in their forms and such that they apply fighting skill to what actually does not produce fighting skill and ignore the serious training for applying techniques in a real situation. Also training only on those who train in the same style as yourself can create this miscalculation of skill.

7sm
 

chessman71

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7starmantis said:
I dont think the core principels of drunken techniques is really foolery. While its deffinitely an advantage and could most assuredly be the reason for its inception, I dont think the trickery is the main tool in the arsenal of a drunken kung fu fighter. To say taking away the guise of drunkenness renders the system useless is a gross oversimplification of the principels behind the style. There are many principels of drunken such as relaxed movement, close fighting, support your weight on the opponent, etc. I think the kung fu guys simply lacked experience with making technique work on resisting opponents. All to often this is a trap kung fu guys flal into. Especially the whole "to dangerous to spar" idea. They get so caught up in their forms and such that they apply fighting skill to what actually does not produce fighting skill and ignore the serious training for applying techniques in a real situation. Also training only on those who train in the same style as yourself can create this miscalculation of skill.

7sm

I agree with this. The whole point of drunken boxing isn't to fool the enemy into thinking the practicioner is drunk. That's wrong. The points listed above are correct, from my experience.

I also agree, in general, about the drunken guys not working with resisting opponents. Good points there.

But what really gets me is that these drunken guys don't pick someone more their speed to try their techniques on. No, they go and fight with kyokushinkai guys, some of the toughest in Japan. That's really, really stupid. They should have tried the taikyoken (I-quan) guys first and worked their way up.

And the teacher in these various clips (there was another CMA that did this a while back) is always sitting on the sideline with the karate sensei watching his boys get the crap kicked out of them. What's up with that?

Dave C.
 

green meanie

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7starmantis said:
I dont think the core principels of drunken techniques is really foolery. While its deffinitely an advantage and could most assuredly be the reason for its inception, I dont think the trickery is the main tool in the arsenal of a drunken kung fu fighter. To say taking away the guise of drunkenness renders the system useless is a gross oversimplification of the principels behind the style. There are many principels of drunken such as relaxed movement, close fighting, support your weight on the opponent, etc. I think the kung fu guys simply lacked experience with making technique work on resisting opponents. All to often this is a trap kung fu guys flal into. Especially the whole "to dangerous to spar" idea. They get so caught up in their forms and such that they apply fighting skill to what actually does not produce fighting skill and ignore the serious training for applying techniques in a real situation. Also training only on those who train in the same style as yourself can create this miscalculation of skill.

7sm

Thanks for the info. That explains a lot. :asian:
 

someguy

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It also should be mentioned that this is a cafefully edited video. Not all of what happened that day. I suppose it could also be all of what happend there.
 
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7starmantis

7starmantis

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chessman71 said:
And the teacher in these various clips (there was another CMA that did this a while back) is always sitting on the sideline with the karate sensei watching his boys get the crap kicked out of them. What's up with that?

Dave C.

I guess everyone wants to take a shot at the best. Some of the guys actually had some decent tehniques if they had soem intent behind them. I think it was the first guy that pulled off a nice back sweep but didn't have anything behind it. THey were throwing quick jabs and punches but way out of range and such. Too bad to it would have been nice to see some drunken kung fu in action.

7sm
 

clfsean

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This video's been out a while & the "drunken" players got what they deserved. Actually they didn't because they were able to walk out.

That was some of the most piss poor examples of drunken techniques I've ever seen & their "sifu"/"sensei" should be flogged for attempting to pass off the crap he stole from video games as a real example of CMA drunken techniques, let alone boxing skills.
 

AceHBK

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excelltn thread and discussion.
Very good points posted here.
 

AceHBK

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7starmantis said:
I dont think the core principels of drunken techniques is really foolery. While its deffinitely an advantage and could most assuredly be the reason for its inception, I dont think the trickery is the main tool in the arsenal of a drunken kung fu fighter. To say taking away the guise of drunkenness renders the system useless is a gross oversimplification of the principels behind the style. There are many principels of drunken such as relaxed movement, close fighting, support your weight on the opponent, etc. I think the kung fu guys simply lacked experience with making technique work on resisting opponents. All to often this is a trap kung fu guys flal into. Especially the whole "to dangerous to spar" idea. They get so caught up in their forms and such that they apply fighting skill to what actually does not produce fighting skill and ignore the serious training for applying techniques in a real situation. Also training only on those who train in the same style as yourself can create this miscalculation of skill.

7sm

Excellent points made in this.
 

Toasty

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I thought i read (or saw on some program) that the so-called "Drunken style" was made up for a movie starring Jackie Chan.

Is this a real style/system and if so how far back does it date?
 

Tony

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I hear drunken style is a pretty effective system but these guys obviously had no fight experience except for the instructor! Centuries ago in China this system was being put to the test everyday so it must hvae worked if it survived today!
 

Brian R. VanCise

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I think you are probably correct in your assessment of this, but I would like to add a thought as well. The whole point of Drunken Boxing was to fool your attacker into thinking you are drunk and unstable, then using this deception to launch a surprising and decisive counter attack. When two people face off like this, then know that nobody is drunk, so the deception is moot. At this point, to play drunk makes no sense and leaves one vulnerable. I think this is a misapplication of the whole drunken boxing concept.

Excellent point and my thoughts exactly!
 

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