Kuk Sool Won Forms

SenseiBear

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I learned a few forms years ago that I believe are Kuk Sool Won forms (Ki Bon Hyung, Cho Gup Hyung, Jung Gup Hyung) - Does anyone know of an online source where I can download and/or view Kuk Sool Won forms? I would like to both confirm that Kuk Sool Won is the source style of these forms, and if so, verify that my memory of the forms is correct.

Anyone?
 
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Venos-KSW

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Ki cho hyung would probably be what you are thinking of instead of ki bon. ki bon is ki bon soo, the set of white belt techniques of kuk sool. the other names you mentioned match up as well (cho gup = yellow belt form, joong gup = blue belt form).

as for an online source, i dont believe one exists. one resource i can think of would be the books, or possibly the video set kuk sa nim made. (never felt that i needed to bother with either, so im not sure)
 
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SenseiBear

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do you think you could identify one of them if I were to try to write a breif description?
 
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SenseiBear

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OK, Here it is - The terminology I use to describe some of the techniques is probably unusual, please bear with me.


Ki Cho Hyung

1- Bow
2- Step back into a Left side forward cat stance while circling the hands in front of you.
3- Front Kick to North, right Mid lunge punch to North.
4- Right and left knife hand clears turning counter clockwise to South.
5- Right inside cresent kick to South.
6- Right tiger clear to East, left palm strike to East.
7- Right ridge hand to North.
8- Step back into a Left side forward cat stance facing North with a right elbow to South.
9- Step back right while circling the hands in front of you.
10- Right tiger clear to the Northeast, right low side kick to the Northeast.
11- Low cross block (right side forward) to the Northeast.
12- High cross block (left side forward) to the Southwest.
13- Pull left foot back into left side forward cat stance, elbows back, fists on hips.
14- Pivot on left foot, swing right leg around clockwise 225 degrees to facing North, stand on right leg, both hands in downward crane blocks with a left knee strike to North.
15- Set foot down into left side forward stance, while circling the hands in front of you.
16- Right inside cresent kick to North.
17- Set foot down into horse stance facing North, drop weight while both hands circle up and out.
18- Step back into a Left side forward cat stance while circling the hands in front of you.
19- With the final circle of the hands, let them draw you up into a left side forward shiva posture facing North (on right leg, left foot up in front of knee, left hand low, right hand high).
20- Set left foot down forward to the North, dropping onto right knee, left knife hand blocking high, right knife hand chopping under left leg.
21- Step back into a Left side forward cat stance while circling the hands in front of you.
22- Step right foot forward and Bow.

NOTE: While I numbered the techniques for readability and to seperate them out, it should be performed in a constant flow.

SB
 
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Venos-KSW

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you're thinking of the correct thing, yes. as far as your instruction goes, no. you only listed half of the form too. but, i can't really go into detail. it would take my over a page to type all of the specific steps out, hehe.
 
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SenseiBear

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well interesting. Now at least I know what style they are from. Do you know what the names of the books are? (for the first 3 forms named above) I would be interested to see how what I learned compares with the real Kuk Sool Won forms.
 
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jwreck

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Here's everything you wanted to know about Kuk Sool, including an online store where you can buy the books and videotapes.here
 
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Venos-KSW

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textbook vol. 1 contains white, yellow, and blue belt material (containing the forms you listed). vol. 2 is red, brown, and first degree black i believe.
 
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SenseiBear

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After you mentioned it wasn't all there, I went back through it and realized that I had the end wrong... It doesn't sound like these last few moves are enough to make it match the real form, but just to be complete as I learned it, starting from the same #20 above:

20- Set left foot down forward to the North, dropping onto right knee, left knife hand blocking high, right knife hand chopping under left leg.
21- Step back into a Left side forward cat stance while circling the hands in front of you.
22 - Right inside cresent kick to North, and continuing the motion into a 360 degree counter clockwise spin ending in a mid level punch to North.
23 - Changing directions, with your hands clearing left high and right low, pivot clockwise and step twice to South, turning 360 degrees, ending in left side forward stance facing North.
24 - Step back into a Left side forward cat stance while circling the hands in front of you.
25- Step feet together and Bow.


Anyway, thanks for the lead on resources to the forms - I'm interested to see how they differ.

SB
 
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SenseiBear

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Originally posted by Venos-KSW
textbook vol. 1 contains white, yellow, and blue belt material (containing the forms you listed). vol. 2 is red, brown, and first degree black i believe.

Are there 6 total? are the last 3 something like: Ko Gup Hyung, Tag Gup Hyung, Komo Hyung?

Maybe I should check that site first...
 
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Venos-KSW

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well, ki cho hyung is broken up into 6 different parts. you've basically described through 4. one thing you might want to differentiate between is cat stances, and kuk sool's basic stances (kyong ah jah say (offensive) and bong ah jah say (defensive). spelling is probably bad off too). those two, forward lean, and horse stance are the only ones used in ki cho hyung. a cat stance isnt introduced until yellow belt form (cho gup hyung).

and for your question, yes, there are 6 total unarmed forms before black belt. ki cho hyung (white belt), cho gup hyung (yellow belt), joong gup hyung (blue belt), go gup hyung (red belt), dae gup hyung (brown belt), and gum moo hyung (brown belt/black stripe).

and as for the kuk sool won website, as far as i know, it has no real reference to curriculum. you have to search for it on various websites.
 
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KukSool-Alex

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the white belt form does have 6 parts but the yellow form and up isnt broken into parts just many movements

the best thing to tell you is to get the book and look them over

white belt is Ki Cho Hyung
yellow is Cho Geup Hyung
Blue is Joong Geup Hyung
Red is Goh Geup Hyung
Brown is Dae Geup Hyung
Black/Brown is Guhm Moo Hyung
then black there are three-Baek Bahl Ki Hyung
Joong Bong Il Hyung (staff)
Joong Guhm Hyung (sword)


hoped that help

as for Ki Bon Soo that is the white belt wrist locks moves
 
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SenseiBear

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The form sections of the books would be appreciated. I would like to see how what I know compares, but don't have the resources at this time to add the books to my library. I know 3 forms, that seem to be the first 3 listed - It is also possible that they have changed over time... the gentleman I learned them from picked them up in Korea in the mid 70's - so time and his memory may be responsible for the differences.

Also, does anyone know how many sword forms Kuk Sool Won has? I study a sword system I was told was based on Kuk Sool and Hapkido sword techniques.

The first 3 forms are two handed long sword
the 4th is one handed long sword
the 5th is an inverted one handed long sword (of which there is a short and a long version)
the 6th is two one handed long swords

Sound Familiar to anyone?
 
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KukSool-Alex

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sorry dont know too much about the sword techniques at the moment not anywhere near those yet...

yea the whole art changed from time to time when kuk sa nim makes it better...

kuk sool is based on all of the "good" (thats what kuk sa nim feels anyway) aspects of all martial arts in korea so i dont doubt its based off of akido
 
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jwreck

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Originally posted by SenseiBear
The form sections of the books would be appreciated. I would like to see how what I know compares, but don't have the resources at this time to add the books to my library. I know 3 forms, that seem to be the first 3 listed - It is also possible that they have changed over time... the gentleman I learned them from picked them up in Korea in the mid 70's - so time and his memory may be responsible for the differences.

Also, does anyone know how many sword forms Kuk Sool Won has? I study a sword system I was told was based on Kuk Sool and Hapkido sword techniques.

The first 3 forms are two handed long sword
the 4th is one handed long sword
the 5th is an inverted one handed long sword (of which there is a short and a long version)
the 6th is two one handed long swords

Sound Familiar to anyone?
In Kuk Sool the first sword form is a one handed long sword. The second is an inverted sword form. Beyond that I have no idea.
 
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Sandifer

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Originally posted by SenseiBear
[Also, does anyone know how many sword forms Kuk Sool Won has? I study a sword system I was told was based on Kuk Sool and Hapkido sword techniques.

The first 3 forms are two handed long sword
the 4th is one handed long sword
the 5th is an inverted one handed long sword (of which there is a short and a long version)
the 6th is two one handed long swords

Sound Familiar to anyone? [/B]

This sounds very familiar to me. The system is of course, the White Lotus as put together by master Bill McCabe. Though I trained some on this system directly with Master McCabe, I mainly studied this system under another teacher. While Master McCabe worked the system with this other teacher Sensei Bill taught me the Silver Fox form as he was creating it. Originally, it was based off what I think (and may still be) kata 5 of the White Lotus. However, by the time it was complete it looked quite a bit different from Kata 5. It may have undergone other changes over time as several of the forms have I understand.

Originally, the fourth kata was the inverted hand and it played off of kata 2. 1 and 3 together made up full circle and 2 and 4 were singing dragon (possibly vice verse on the name). Anyway, PM me for more info if you like.

SD
 
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SenseiBear

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It is good to see you on Martial Talk!

Yes, the style is White Lotus, and I am glad to talk with someone who knows it.

I don't know all the forms, I have 1, 2, 3, and a short version of 5. Currently (or, as I know them), 1 and 3 make up Singing Dragon and 2 and 5 make up full circle... I have also seen a long version of White Lotus 5 that includes a shoulder roll. I haven't had a ton of training in these, but rather have picked them up from various sources through the years, with some clean up by Sensei Bill.

Also, a 2 man set has been added, (with both a long and a short version) called Twin Musashi.

I have been looking around as of late for some of the source material and the roots of the things I have learned, and some references I came across about Kuk Sool Won sword led me to believe that they may have been the inspiration for at least some of the White Lotus System.
 
S

Sandifer

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I know all the kata 1-6, but have never seen the two person set. I picked up the changes/additions to 5 (previously 4) some time back from Sifu Rusty after he did some training with Sensei Bill. I haven't really drilled the longer version with the shoulder roll but I do the revised version when I practice it.

I have a student from an affiliate dojo of mine that recently expressed an interest in training sword to one of his Sempai. So he was refered to me. Anyway, he asked me to teach him sword soon.

I tried to send you an e-mail to let you know Sifu Rusty, myself and another teacher of Karate are opening a dojo together teaching our respective arts. The school will be out on South Bay in the back of Kelly's corner market on the Shinke side. Please stop by this Sunday at 10am we will be cleaning up the space if everything falls in place. I am not even sure if I know you.

Or contact me at sandiferm@yahoo.com

SD
 
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SenseiBear

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I got your PM, and tried to reply - you can go to the "Private Messages" section by using the "Forum Jump" drop down list at the lower left... it is the first link, I think.

I am leaving for Idaho tonight, but may be back by Sunday. If I get back in time, I would love to stop by and see what you guys are doing. Maybe we could get together at times and work White Lotus stuff
 

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