BrandiJo
Master of Arts
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Kindergartner arested
- Thread starter BrandiJo
- Start date
Good lord. One felony and two misdemeanors because of a tantrum?
Then again, they probably would have charged the teacher with felony child abuse had she tried to defend herself against the child...sheesh...
Then again, they probably would have charged the teacher with felony child abuse had she tried to defend herself against the child...sheesh...
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
I am gob-smacked! What the hell is going on in Avon Park?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
AAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL righty then.
:idunno:
:idunno:
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Now, do the cops on this board understand why people hate cops?
That goddamn Police Chief needs to lose his ****ing job. Regardfless of what age? Mother****er. Since when do we hold... TODDLERS... to the standards of adult conduct? Now, do the cops on this board understand why people hate cops? It's because of *******s like that!
That goddamn Police Chief needs to lose his ****ing job. Regardfless of what age? Mother****er. Since when do we hold... TODDLERS... to the standards of adult conduct? Now, do the cops on this board understand why people hate cops? It's because of *******s like that!
Don't sugarcoat it. Tell us how you really feel
This is, sadly, not the first time such an incident has occurred, by far. Here's another version of the story with a few more details, such as:
Nowhere does this article, or any of the others I looked at, say why the parent was not called - or if she was called, why she did not respond - and that is my first question about this issue.
However, I do not blame the police for responding to a call; they had no way to know what was truly occurring until they arrived. Nor do I blame the school, as such. This is a societal issue that goes well beyond this particular instance. In the truly commendable effort to eliminate child abuse, it has become politically incorrect - not to mention illegal - to physically discipline a child. Even restraint of an out-of-control child requires special training (I know - I've been through it) and extensive documentation.
Schools are unable to discipline students with anything more egregious than detention (which many parents object to, as it disrupts their schedule), and yet many parents expect the schools to raise their children; not a week goes by at the middle school where I work but that 5-10 parents call every Monday, telling an administrator that "over the weekend, child X called/texted/said/etc. this nasty thing to my child - and since child X goes to your school along with my child, I want to know what the school is going to do about it". Calling the police may be extreme - as is arresting a 6 year-old who is having a tanturm - but it is, as I said, part of a much larger issue in which many parents expect the schools to raise their children, but the schools have little, if any, authority and/or ability to actually enforce appropriate behavior.
In such an instance, I, as a teacher, would, if necessary, remove the other students from the class, and leave an adult (myself or someone else) to watch the child until she calmed down - but such is not always possible. If the child had been striking out as part of the tantrum, the safety of the other students becomes an issue (thus, their removal) - and the school may have felt that, in the interests of safety, no other course was possible.
Do I think the child should have been arrested? No, I don't - I don't believe that a child that age is capable of the control necessary to avoid such a situation, especially once the police arrive and scare the **** out of her - but not having been there, I cannot say one way or the other what really happened.
Nowhere does this article, or any of the others I looked at, say why the parent was not called - or if she was called, why she did not respond - and that is my first question about this issue.
However, I do not blame the police for responding to a call; they had no way to know what was truly occurring until they arrived. Nor do I blame the school, as such. This is a societal issue that goes well beyond this particular instance. In the truly commendable effort to eliminate child abuse, it has become politically incorrect - not to mention illegal - to physically discipline a child. Even restraint of an out-of-control child requires special training (I know - I've been through it) and extensive documentation.
Schools are unable to discipline students with anything more egregious than detention (which many parents object to, as it disrupts their schedule), and yet many parents expect the schools to raise their children; not a week goes by at the middle school where I work but that 5-10 parents call every Monday, telling an administrator that "over the weekend, child X called/texted/said/etc. this nasty thing to my child - and since child X goes to your school along with my child, I want to know what the school is going to do about it". Calling the police may be extreme - as is arresting a 6 year-old who is having a tanturm - but it is, as I said, part of a much larger issue in which many parents expect the schools to raise their children, but the schools have little, if any, authority and/or ability to actually enforce appropriate behavior.
In such an instance, I, as a teacher, would, if necessary, remove the other students from the class, and leave an adult (myself or someone else) to watch the child until she calmed down - but such is not always possible. If the child had been striking out as part of the tantrum, the safety of the other students becomes an issue (thus, their removal) - and the school may have felt that, in the interests of safety, no other course was possible.
Do I think the child should have been arrested? No, I don't - I don't believe that a child that age is capable of the control necessary to avoid such a situation, especially once the police arrive and scare the **** out of her - but not having been there, I cannot say one way or the other what really happened.
jdinca
Master Black Belt
Absolutely assinine. The principal is an idiot for calling the cops in the first place and the police chief is an idiot for trying to justify what one of his officers did. Unbelievable.
The really sad thing about our society is that there are plenty of people out there that feel this was the right thing to do.
The really sad thing about our society is that there are plenty of people out there that feel this was the right thing to do.
Empty Hands
Senior Master
No, they never will. These bozos taser 6 year olds, and when we complain, it's just a few bad apples and we're just being liberal crybabies. For just a few bad apples, these incidents keep happening over, and over, and over again.
Don't believe me about the taser incident?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/15/taser_kids_zapped/
In my own place of work, UCLA, campus cops repeatedly tasered an unarmed and non-physical kid in the library, and threatened passersby with the same when they objected.
http://dailybruin.com/news/2006/nov/16/community-responds-to-taser-us/
They wonder why we get annoyed.
Brother John
Senior Master
I hope to GOD that's not a True story.
That man should NOT be a cop!!
holy cow.....
Your Brother
John
That man should NOT be a cop!!
holy cow.....
Your Brother
John
One of the fundamental problems, and if you get a couple drinks or similar into most cops they'll confirm it, is that the profession relies on loyalty. That means that they back each other up, and they always give each other the benefit of the doubt. The "boy scouts" and the ones who are past their probationary period but just aren't with the program end up in unpopular jobs like Internal Affairs. And while they may come down on bad ones internally they'll present a united front to the outside world. That means you have to be a complete cockup, molesting underage children (and even then I know of two cases where officers got a pass) or actually doing hits for the Mob to be thrown from the sleigh.
Don't believe me? Consider the plunger case in the NYPD. Consider that everyone in the precinct knew. Nobody said ****. It was only when the victim decided he had nothing to lose and talked from his hospital bed - after he and the doctors had been threatened with murder if they talked - that something happened. And even then they sacrificed a couple cops, and the rest skated. Sexual assault. Assault with intent to kill. Threatening witnesses. Obstruction of justice. Lying under oath. And they walked. Didn't even get fired except for the two who actually raped that poor guy with a piece of wood.
Don't believe me? Consider the plunger case in the NYPD. Consider that everyone in the precinct knew. Nobody said ****. It was only when the victim decided he had nothing to lose and talked from his hospital bed - after he and the doctors had been threatened with murder if they talked - that something happened. And even then they sacrificed a couple cops, and the rest skated. Sexual assault. Assault with intent to kill. Threatening witnesses. Obstruction of justice. Lying under oath. And they walked. Didn't even get fired except for the two who actually raped that poor guy with a piece of wood.
jdinca
Master Black Belt
I understand the loyalty issue. The chief should have taken a neutral stance on this issue and said that it was being looked into. The wholesale support of his officer was a little premature. It's giving that department a bad name.
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Yea, well, I remember when that thread was posted here, and watched the video, and I seem to recall that was more or less an adult, acting in a beligerent manner in a place he wasn't supposed to be to the staff and to the cops and the taseing was a result. Considering the circumstances, I think that had a better result than if the cops shot him, beat him with thier nightsticks, (or a toilet plunger) or peppersprayed the whole library... Really, how DO you remove an unwilling adult subject quickly from a building full of hostiles once the "owners" have ordered him removed without injuring him? (Typically Tasers will HURT you, they wont INJURE you) I don't want to sidetrack the whole thread here getting back into that discussion, but being an adult and breaking the law and then throwing a temper tantrum and having nonlethal force used to make you comply for the saftey of the cops and others a little more excusable in my mind than terrorizing, handcuffing, arresting and charging a six year old child for an outburst.
jdinca
Master Black Belt
Please be careful with how you phrase your comments. There are a number of respected LEOs on this board that are not what you appear to think is the typical cop.
There are a lot of police officers in this country. To base your opinion on a few highly publicized cases and the actions of campus cops is a little short sighted.
I've known a lot of cops over the years and yeah, some of them are turds. Then again, I've known a lot of firefighters, paramedics, doctors, nurses etc., over the years and some of them are turds too. It's part of human nature.
Maybe if more people treated cops with respect, instead of as the enemy, there wouldn't be as many cops with the type of attitude your illustrating.
KeeblerElf
Yellow Belt
I don't understand this at all. I work in daycare. I've been bit, hit, punched, had toys thrown at me, kicked and everything inbetween, all the while they were yelling and screaming. We didn't call the cops. We called mom and dad to say this would be there last day, they were no longer welcome at the center, but this was like the third time this happened and the parents refused to call anyone to talk to their child about the obvious behavior issues. That situation was completly handled inappropriately, if you can't handle a six year old, don't go into teaching.
Shaderon
Master of Arts
That's disgusting. I don't agree with calling the cops on a 6 year old under ANY circumstances! I have seen how the social services in the UK quizzing a parent can upset a child which will have long lasting psychological damage, but actually getting arrested must do much more damage to the child, I can't even imagine what nightmares that kid must have. Ok the schools have their hands tied with what they can do, but to call the police is worse than a few scratches and kicks. I know how powerful a 6 year olds kicks can be, my girl (who is 5) has kicked me a few times while we were training and I hopped for a minute, but it's NOT worth calling a cop over!
The children at risk should have been removed from the scene, TWO adults should have stayed with the child (in case there's a medical emergency e.g. the kid is actually going to have a fit, the kid is diabetic and no one realised, or they cut themselves and someone needs to go for an ambulance, and the parent should be the first port of call. The ONLY way I would want police to get involved with a 6 year old is to find the parent on call and DRAG them round to the school and force them to take control.
No way should that child have been arrested, they could be traumatised beyond belief. Many adults would have trauma problems after that, never mind a 6 year old kid.
In this lawsuit happy country that we live in it is much safer for the teaching staff to call on the law to settle an unruly kid down than to even raise their voice to one. "Johnny! Sit down and be quiet!" can soon turn into tons of legal fees. Were these PARTICULAR cops out of their minds? Oh, yeah. What gets me though, is that I've not seen anyone commenting on WHY the teacher didn't grab hold of this kid, sling 'em over a sholder and march 'em to the office. Come on! We can sit and ***** about the police and the teaching staff all day long if we want but it doesn't get to the core issue here. Why did a 6 year old kid feel that it was ok to behave like that in the first place. I wouldn't have at that age. I knew that there would be severe consequences. The fear of consequences any worse than a "time out" have been taken out of society and, IMO, have had a hugely negative impact upon us.
OP
BrandiJo
Master of Arts
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If i ever acted that way my parents would have spanked me and i wouldnt have sat down for a week. Should the teacher have handed it better yes, but what can a teacher do now a days? From my limited teaching experence, we are taught not to touch the student unless it is to break up an already exisiting fight, to prevent other students from being harmed. But if hte child is "mearly" throwing a tantrum we are told to send the child to the hall, the office, the library, somehwere out of the class room and out of harms way where the child can be supervised.
this being said, one school i have been at has a "time out" room where the child is locked in and kept untill they calm down, i have seen children carried in there and some go willingly, i am not sure that is the best solution either. I certainly do not think the police should have been involved, a parent most deffantly... but i dont feel the teacher herself was at fault. The principal maybe, the cops deffantly, and child yes she should have known better.
this being said, one school i have been at has a "time out" room where the child is locked in and kept untill they calm down, i have seen children carried in there and some go willingly, i am not sure that is the best solution either. I certainly do not think the police should have been involved, a parent most deffantly... but i dont feel the teacher herself was at fault. The principal maybe, the cops deffantly, and child yes she should have known better.
