Katie and Jennifer

[Bob Hubbard]

Katie, a college student who considered herself to be a liberal Democrat, challenged her father, a staunch Republican, on his opposition to taxes and welfare. He responded by asking about her grades.

"I have a 4.0 GPA," Katie replied, "but... school is tough. I have to study all of the time, and don't have any free time to go out and party. I have little time for my friends, and no time at all for a boyfriend."

He then asked about her friend Jennifer.

"She's not doing very well. Her GPA is 2.0 because she spends most of her time partying rather than studying. She often skips classes because she is too hung over, or having fun with the many guys she hangs out with. Jennifer is very popular."

Her father then asked Katie why she didn't request that the Dean's office deduct 1.0 from her 4.0 and give it to Jennifer so they would both have a 3.0 GPA. Clearly riled by that suggestion, Jennifer exclaimed, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked very hard and Jennifer does almost nothing!"

The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Libertarian Party."


===
Stolen from Facebook

 

[billc]

Nice post. I'm pretty sure you saw this demonstrated on the video in a thread a few months ago. It is even better when real life people refuse to share their grades.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Katie, a college student who considered herself to be a liberal Democrat, challenged her father, a staunch Republican, on his opposition to taxes and welfare. He responded by asking about her grades.

"I have a 4.0 GPA," Katie replied, "but... school is tough. I have to study all of the time, and don't have any free time to go out and party. I have little time for my friends, and no time at all for a boyfriend."

He then asked about her friend Jennifer.

"She's not doing very well. Her GPA is 2.0 because she spends most of her time partying rather than studying. She often skips classes because she is too hung over, or having fun with the many guys she hangs out with. Jennifer is very popular."

Her father then asked Katie why she didn't request that the Dean's office deduct 1.0 from her 4.0 and give it to Jennifer so they would both have a 3.0 GPA. Clearly riled by that suggestion, Jennifer exclaimed, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked very hard and Jennifer does almost nothing!"

The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Libertarian Party."


===
Stolen from Facebook

How is that Libertarian? that stands directly against the principal of self-ownership!

 

[Josh Oakley]

Bob, that's more communist than libertarian.


THIS is more libertarian:
http://www.lp.org/platform

 

[Carol]

I would also like to know how that is libertarian. That sounds authoritarian to me.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Read it carefully.

 

[Carol]

Oooohhhh.....got it

 

[Empty Hands]

Have fun beating the **** out that strawman, guys. Reminds me of all those emails where the smug atheist has God's power demonstrated to him by a humble believer (like the college prof. and the student with the chalk).

 

[Josh Oakley]

Read it carefully.

Well now I just feel dumb.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

If it's fair to take money from person A who has a lot, to give to person B who has little,
it is also fair to take food from A who has much to give to B who has little.
it is also fair to take grade points from A who has a high level to aid person B who has a low level.

If it is not right to take surplus from one to benefit one with a deficit in -1- case, it is therefore not right in -any- case.

You can argue 'responsibility', 'duty', and so forth.
Those arguments don't matter.

It's not the job of government to enforce those.

Charity done at gun point, is not charity.

I posted this on my Facebook wall...
It got -UGLY-.

The argument was given that these services/systems exist because people want them.
Because people don't want the sick to suffer, the hungry to starve, and the old to be abandoned.
All honorable and just things, IMO.
But.
The argument was that these services are forced on us, because the people want these services forced on us, because if we didn't force the people into this forced giving, then they otherwise would not give, so that the people they didn't want to suffer would end up suffering.

Think about it.

"I don't want you to suffer, but I don't want to freely give you my money so I want these other people to force me to give it to you so that I can help you."

The illogic of it all would choke a Vulcan.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

You can take the argument to the extreme of course.

Person A enjoys a healthy sex life because their partner is insatiable.
Person B lacks nookie because their partner shags like a Vulcan...once every 7 years and only under pain of death.
So the government can 'subsidize nookie' by requiring partner swaps so that everyone gets a fair amount of rompybompy.
As determined by the Federal Department of Shagging, created under some 3,500 Family Protection Act that was read by a couple of internet bloggers, but no Senators prior to voting and signing into law by a president who has creative ideas for the use of the desk and some cigars.

 

[billc]

Excuse me Bob, I believe the actual technical term is "Knocking Boots." Just trying to be accurate.

 

[Josh Oakley]

You can take the argument to the extreme of course.

Person A enjoys a healthy sex life because their partner is insatiable.
Person B lacks nookie because their partner shags like a Vulcan...once every 7 years and only under pain of death.
So the government can 'subsidize nookie' by requiring partner swaps so that everyone gets a fair amount of rompybompy.
As determined by the Federal Department of Shagging, created under some 3,500 Family Protection Act that was read by a couple of internet bloggers, but no Senators prior to voting and signing into law by a president who has creative ideas for the use of the desk and some cigars.

Booty should definitely be given up freely. Even charity booty. Perhaps especially the charity booty.

We really should start a booty charity.

 

[Makalakumu]

Katie, a college student who considered herself to be a liberal Democrat, challenged her father, a staunch Republican, on his opposition to taxes and welfare. He responded by asking about her grades.

"I have a 4.0 GPA," Katie replied, "but... school is tough. I have to study all of the time, and don't have any free time to go out and party. I have little time for my friends, and no time at all for a boyfriend."

He then asked about her friend Jennifer.

"She's not doing very well. Her GPA is 2.0 because she spends most of her time partying rather than studying. She often skips classes because she is too hung over, or having fun with the many guys she hangs out with. Jennifer is very popular."

Her father then asked Katie why she didn't request that the Dean's office deduct 1.0 from her 4.0 and give it to Jennifer so they would both have a 3.0 GPA. Clearly riled by that suggestion, Jennifer exclaimed, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked very hard and Jennifer does almost nothing!"

The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Libertarian Party."


===
Stolen from Facebook

Okay, lets take it to the next level.

Lets say a third party comes in with a gun and forces the girls to share what they earned. Would you consider that immoral?

If you say yes and we apply this universally, then any time the government forces you to pay for something, it's immoral.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Okay, lets take it to the next level.

Lets say a third party comes in with a gun and forces the girls to share what they earned. Would you consider that immoral?

If you say yes and we apply this universally, then any time the government forces you to pay for something, it's immoral.

Um... You two are basically saying the same thing.

 

[Makalakumu]

Are we?

What is a good excuse for a third party to forcibly redistribute someone else's money?

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[Josh Oakley]

Are we?

What is a good excuse for a third party to forcibly redistribute someone else's money?

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

Yes. Yes you are. You are making EXACTLY the same point as Bob.

If it's fair to take money from person A who has a lot, to give to person B who has little,
it is also fair to take food from A who has much to give to B who has little.
it is also fair to take grade points from A who has a high level to aid person B who has a low level.

If it is not right to take surplus from one to benefit one with a deficit in -1- case, it is therefore not right in -any- case.

You can argue 'responsibility', 'duty', and so forth.
Those arguments don't matter.

It's not the job of government to enforce those.

Charity done at gun point, is not charity.

It's okay, makalakumu. You have been assigned a seat in the dunce chair, but me and Carol aready warmed it for you:cheers:

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Ah yes, because everyone with a low GPA has one due to partying and irresponsibility; correlatively, everyone with a high GPA clearly has it due to hard work and austerity. In addition, clearly, one party is the one doing all the giving up while the other is doing nothing but taking; it is entirely impossible that the one supposedly giving up their GPA isn't reaping any benefit by doing so. Nope, this argument is entirely accurate of taxation and not at all self-serving.

Oh, and as some insightful individual whom I don't recall and am too lazy to look up from the previous thread on this topic pointed out, colleges and universities already do this to a certain extent. Heard of bell-curve test grading?

 

[HammockRider]

So anyone who needs any type of government assistence is a drunken, lazy slut? I know for a fact that that's not true.

But assuming for the sake of the discussion that it is true, does it also apply to all the huge "too big to fail" companies that received massive amonuts of tax dollars as bail out money?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

So anyone who needs any type of government assistence is a drunken, lazy slut? I know for a fact that that's not true.

Correct.

But assuming for the sake of the discussion that it is true, does it also apply to all the huge "too big to fail" companies that received massive amonuts of tax dollars as bail out money?

The government should not be bailing out or otherwise subsidizing business. Period.