JRE - Striking and BJJ

[TMA17]

Eddi Bravo said he's going to start taking up kick boxing and stresses the importance of striking for street fighting.

Starts @ 9:52. Mentions Bruce Lee.

 

[hoshin1600]

there is a point that grappling can go too far down a rabbit hole. i watched a EBI event the other day and the two champs spent 15 minutes trying to get a toe lock. grappling wise it was high level but self defense wise it was ridiculous.

 

[now disabled]

Just a thought, how much that happens actually in a ring can be transferred to the SD situation?

@hoshin1600 makes great point imo yes it high level grappling and on that point as fights in the ring are a tactical battle as much as physical and have rules and time frames what can be taken from them?

Not downing the ring scene or the pro fight scene in anyway

 

[Hanzou]

there is a point that grappling can go too far down a rabbit hole. i watched a EBI event the other day and the two champs spent 15 minutes trying to get a toe lock. grappling wise it was high level but self defense wise it was ridiculous.

Thing is, it may take 15 minutes to get a leglock off on an elite grappler, but you could probably get it off in seconds against a person who has no idea what you're doing. Joint destruction in the foot and leg is absolutely debilitating and there's very little chance the person you just performed that on is going to be much of a threat afterwards.

 

[jobo]

Thing is, it may take 15 minutes to get a leglock off on an elite grappler, but you could probably get it off in seconds against a person who has no idea what you're doing.

But you can say much the same for a right cross, someone with no idea will walk straiGht into it.

Are you now saying that you should base your sd training only on people who have no idea what your doing/ abOut to do ?

 

[now disabled]

Thing is, it may take 15 minutes to get a leglock off on an elite grappler, but you could probably get it off in seconds against a person who has no idea what you're doing. Joint destruction in the foot and leg is absolutely debilitating and there's very little chance the person you just performed that on is going to be much of a threat afterwards.

Any joint major joint destruction is going to be debilitating, that is not solely the preserve of the leg and foot

 

[Hanzou]

But you can say much the same for a right cross, someone with no idea will walk straiGht into it.

Are you now saying that you should base your sd training only on people who have no idea what your doing/ abOut to do ?

A right cross isn't always going to knock someone out, and there's a chance of missing completely.

Once a leglock is engaged, there's an extremely high chance that your leg is going to break, and expert grapplers are experts at initiating it from multiple set ups.

 

[Hanzou]

Any joint major joint destruction is going to be debilitating, that is not solely the preserve of the leg and foot

True, but arm and shoulder locks are a bit easier to counter and people are more familiar with the set up. Leglocks are alien territory for a lot of people. Even expert martial artists and grapplers.

 

[now disabled]

True, but arm and shoulder locks are a bit easier to counter and people are more familiar with the set up. Leglocks are alien territory for a lot of people. Even expert martial artists and grapplers.

Ok maybe but if the arm,wrist, elbow or shoulder locks and destruction are easier set up it doesn't mean they are any less destructive and in effect potentially more useful ? I understand what you are saying however with a leg lock like you are talking about does it not mean going to ground? if so in a SD situation is that not going to place you at a disadvantage ? In as much as you are then open to others countering you ?

 

[jobo]

A right cross isn't always going to knock someone out, and there's a chance of missing completely.

Once a leglock is engaged, there's an extremely high chance that your leg is going to break, and expert grapplers are experts at initiating it from multiple set ups.

There a chance of missing completly with a leg lock ? il grab his leg, ooops missed

 

[TMA17]

I'd imagine you can really break your hand on someone's head if not careful. I think Hollywood and boxing (gloves) give a false impression of how real striking can inflict serious damage to your hand.

 

[Hanzou]

Ok maybe but if the arm,wrist, elbow or shoulder locks and destruction are easier set up it doesn't mean they are any less destructive and in effect potentially more useful ? I understand what you are saying however with a leg lock like you are talking about does it not mean going to ground? if so in a SD situation is that not going to place you at a disadvantage ? In as much as you are then open to others countering you ?

Again it depends on the person we're talking about here. If we're dealing with an elite grappler (per Hoshin's example) they can set up the leg lock in a matter of seconds and snap someone's leg in under a minute. Again, the vast majority of people have no idea what you're doing in those set ups, so I would argue that the leglock is actually easier to pull off than an arm or shoulder lock. Also someone can still put up a fight with a snapped elbow or wrist. You're definitely not in fighting shape if you can't walk.

 

[Hanzou]

There a chance of missing completly with a leg lock ? il grab his leg, ooops missed

There are set ups that are part of chains, so if you miss the first time, you can quickly chain into another one.

 

[now disabled]

Again it depends on the person we're talking about here. If we're dealing with an elite grappler (per Hoshin's example) they can set up the leg lock in a matter of seconds and snap someone's leg in under a minute. Again, the vast majority of people have no idea what you're doing in those set ups, so I would argue that the leglock is actually easier to pull off than an arm or shoulder lock. Also someone can still put up a fight with a snapped elbow or wrist. You're definitely not in fighting shape if you can't walk.

Hmmm not many will still fight if you destroy an elbow ... that takes major pain tolerance, and there are ways of destroying the ability to walk not involving a leg leg ...which again would not involve going to ground

 

[now disabled]

There are set ups that are part of chains, so if you miss the first time, you can quickly chain into another one.

But that again is not just the premise of leg locks, most if not all techs can be strung or chained together and if one doesn't work move to next attempt and so forth

 

[Hanzou]

Hmmm not many will still fight if you destroy an elbow ... that takes major pain tolerance,

Yes, and if your opponent is hyped up on drugs or some other substance, they will fight against that pain tolerance and still come after you. If you snap the knee or the heel no amount of pain tolerance is going to allow their broken joints from supporting their weight.

and there are ways of destroying the ability to walk not involving a leg leg ...which again would not involve going to ground

If you're talking about leg kicks or stamping kicks, those take time and are far lower percentage attacks.

But that again is not just the premise of leg locks....

I never said they were.

 

[now disabled]

Yes, and if your opponent is hyped up on drugs or some other substance, they will fight against that pain tolerance and still come after you. If you snap the knee or the heel no amount of pain tolerance is going to allow their broken joints from supporting their weight.



If you're talking about leg kicks or stamping kicks, those take time and are far lower percentage attacks.



I never said they were.

Someone that has that much in them that they do not stop after an elbow is destroyed etc is gonna be very much disadvantaged with one side of his body basically useless that I doubt the potential to keep going would be there, but I guess nothing is 100%

As for low percentage and more time I'd disagree there

 

[jobo]

There are set ups that are part of chains, so if you miss the first time, you can quickly chain into another one.

So exactly the same as a right cross then ?

 

[Hanzou]

So exactly the same as a right cross then ?

If you want to believe that punches are "exactly the same" as a leg lock set up, that's your business.

 

[jobo]

If you want to believe that punches are "exactly the same" as a leg lock set up, that's your business.

THey ( punches) are part of a chain, if you miss one attempt you transition into another, to that extent they are much the same !